Christianity a true religion

THE BIBLE
IS THE BIBLE INDESTRUCTIBLE?
Throughout the centuries some people have hated the Bible. Some have even shown
violent hatred for the Bible by attempting to destroy it, as did King Jehoiakim in Jeremiah 36:1-
23. Others have killed the men who wrote the Scriptures as Stephen said in Acts 7:51-53. The
Bible is hated even today because it condemns their wickedness and demands submission to the
will of God. Many have attempted to discredit its divine inspiration and destroy its influence.
Others are completely indifferent to God’s word and have never studied it, believing it is not
relevant to the problems of mankind.

The Bible has shown itself to be impervious, imperishable, impregnable,
indissoluble, and invincible toward the vicious assaults hurled against it throughout the centuries.
In spite of its enemies, the Bible lives. The Bible surpasses all other books in its popularity and
its influence. It has been translated, in whole or in part, into nearly 2,000 languages and dialects
and has been circulated by the billions of copies into every corner of the world. Bernard Ramm
wrote:
“A thousand times over, the death knell of the Bible
has been sounded, the funeral procession formed, the
inscription cut on the tombstone, and committal read.
But somehow the corpse never stays put.”
WHY I NEED TO KNOW OF ITS INDESTRUCTIBILITY
1. The Bible’s indestructibility proves that it is inspired of God.
4. Shall stand forever.
5. Shall not depart or be removed.
These are all claims of indestructibility.
Turning to the New Testament in Matt 24:35, “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but
my words shall not pass away.” (ASV). In John 10:35, “the scripture cannot be
broken.” (ASV). In John 12:48, “He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my sayings,
hath one that judgeth him: the word that I spake, the same shall judge him in the last
day.” (ASV). In 1 Pet 1:24-25, “For, All flesh is as grass, And all the glory thereof as
the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower falleth: But the word of the
Lord abideth forever. And this is the word of good tidings which was preached unto
you.” (ASV).
The New Testament also claims that the Word of God:
1. Shall not pass away.
2. Cannot be broken.
3. Shall judge us in the last day.
4. Liveth and abideth forever.
5. Endureth forever.
These are claims of indestructibility. There are many other passages claiming that the
Word of God is indestructible, but these should suffice.[/size][/right][/pre]

Posted: at 11-01-2012 08:52 PM (12 years ago) | Newbie

Jesus is the light of the world

Posted: at 11-01-2012 10:22 PM (12 years ago) | Upcoming

And to think that some posters in other threads were saying that Christianity isn't actually a religion - !!!

Posted: at 12-01-2012 08:05 AM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac

Before, discussing what the Quran says about The Bible and Jesus Christ, I want Christian to know some basics of Islam vis-a-vis the islamic books.


By Samuel Green
 

Introduction

The Bible and the Qur'an are often compared to each other when Christians and Muslims are discussing issues. They are typically compared in the following ways:

Preservation of text
Formation of canon
Teaching about Jesus, women, warfare, etc.
Scientific accuracy
Contradictions
This type of comparison is something that I myself have done in the past. However, it is actually inaccurate and misleading to compare the Bible to the Qur'an. There are two reasons for this.

Reason 1. The Context of the Bible and Qur'an

The Qur'an revolves and evolves around Muhammad's life. Muhammad recited the words of the Qur'an in response to various situations in his life, but what these situations were is not recorded in the Qur'an. That is, the Qur'an does not provide its own context or chronology. Knowing the correct context and chronology is essential to understand the Qur'an. But to know this context and chronology you must go outside of the Qur'an to the Islamic traditions - books like the Hadith or Sira literature. These books provide the context for the Qur'an. The Islamic scholar Habib Ur Rahman Azami clearly states the Qur'an's dependence upon the Hadith and Sira.

(I)t is almost impossible to understand or explain the meaning of a large number of Qur'anic verses if the Traditions are rejected as useless and inauthentic. (Habib Ur Rahman Azami, The Sunnah in Islam, pp. 29-31.)
 
The Bible, however, is very different. It provides its own context and chronology. Its revelation begins with creation and tells the story of God, the world, his people, the prophets and the Messiah, right through to the age of the resurrection. When the Bible gives various commands or announces the gospel it does so within a context that it itself has revealed. Thus, to understand the Bible you only need the Bible. In fact, many of the stories which are only briefly retold in the Qur'an are told in full in the Bible. The Bible is self-sufficient, as the word of God should be. Therefore to compare the Bible to the Qur'an alone is misleading and inaccurate.

Reason 2. Practices and Beliefs

The Qur'an does not contain most of the basic practices or many of the beliefs of Islam.

The Sunnah (the example of Muhammad) is the crucial complement to the Koran; so much so, that there are in fact isolated instances where, in fact, the Sunnah appears to prevail over the Koran as, for example, when the Koran refers to three daily prayers (24:58, 11:116, 17:78-79, 20:130, 30:17-18), but the Sunnah sets five. On the other hand, there are cases from the earliest days of Islam of universal practices which appear to contradict express Sunnah. Moreover, the Koran does not make explicit all of its commands; not even all those which are fundamental. Thus it enjoins prayer, but not how it is to be performed: the form of canonical prayer (salah) is based entirely on Sunnah. (Cyril Glassé, "Sunnah", The Concise Encyclopedia of Islam, pp. 381-382)

(T)he obligatory injunction to establish Salah (regular, formal worship) was revealed in the Qur’an as were some of the elements of Salah (like Qiyam, Ruku`, Sujud and Qira’ah). But the actual manner of offering Salah and the order in which the various acts connected with it were to be performed, were not described in the Qur’an. ... Similarly the Hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca) was prescribed as a religious duty in the Qur'an but its method and formalities were not defined. The Prophet showed the correct way by performing the Hajj himself. (Habib Ur Rahman Azami, pp. 10-11)

Narrated Al-Irbad ibn Sariyah as-Sulami: ... They gathered and the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) led them in prayer, stood up and said: Does any of you, while reclining on his couch, imagine that Allah has prohibited only that which is to be found in this Qur'an? By Allah, I have preached, commanded and prohibited various matters as numerous as that which is found in the Qur'an, or more numerous. ... (Abu-Dawud: bk. 19, no. 3044, Hasan)

Islamic Shariah is complete only with recourse to both the Qur'an and the Sunnah. (Habib Ur Rahman Azami, p. 5)

How, when and what to pray, what to do on Hajj, circumcision, the signs of the hour, the story of Hagar, in fact most of the essential Islamic practices and beliefs come from the Sunnah (practices) of Muhammad. The Sunnah is essential to Islam but it does not come from the Qur'an but the Hadith and Sira. Again, this is not the case with the Bible. The Bible has everything a Christian needs. The Bible fully declares what God has done to save us and bring glory to himself and how we are to live. It is the basis for our wisdom and defines our liberty. Therefore to compare the Bible to the Qur'an alone is misleading and inaccurate.

Why is the Bible so complete?

The Bible is complete because it contains the Torah, the law of Moses, the Psalms of David, the Wisdom of Solomon, the prophetic books of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi. It has the gospel of Jesus from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and the writings of the apostles of the Messiah.

The Bible
Law of Moses
(Torah) The Prophets
(an-anbeea') The Psalms
(Zabur) The Gospel
(Injeel)

Christians believe all the prophets and make no distinction between them, therefore, they read all of the prophets, and because they read all of the prophets they lack nothing.

A More Accurate Comparison

It should be clear now that to compare the Bible to the Qur'an is irrelevant because while the Bible is the foundation of Christianity, the Qur'an is not the foundation of Islam, rather Islam is founded on the Qur'an, Hadith and Sira. If you want an honest and accurate comparison between the books of Christianity and Islam then you must compare the essential books of both religions.

Some facts on the Hadith. The word "hadith" means an account or news about something. A hadith can vary in length from a sentence to a full page. In Islam the main subject of the Hadith is what Muhammad did and said, that is, the Hadith contain the Sunnah. There are many large collections of Hadith. Prof. Masud-ul-Hasan explains what the main collections are:

Muslim 
Al-Bukhari 
The recognised collection of Hadith on the "Musannaf"[1] pattern are the collections of:

Al-Bukhari (d. 870 C.E.) [A collection of 7658 hadiths (ahadith).]
Muslim (d. 875 C.E.) [A collection of 7748 hadiths.]
Abu Daud (d. 875 C.E.) [A collection of 5276 hadiths.]
Al-Tirmizi (d. 892 C.E.) [A collection of 4415 hadiths.]
Al-Nasai (d. 915 C.E.) [A collection of 5776 hadiths.]
Ibn Maja (d. 886 C.E.) [A collection of 4485 hadiths.]
... The collections of Al-Bukhari and Muslim rank high and are known as "Al-Sahihain" i.e. authentic and authoritative.

The best known collection on the "Musnad"[2] pattern is the collection of Ahmad ibn Hanbal (d. 855 C.E.).

The Shia works on "Hadith", do not merely refer to what the Holy Prophet said or did, they also refer to what the Shia Imams said or did. The Shia works on Hadith are the collections of:

Muhammad ibn Yakub Al-Kulluni (d. 939 C.E.)
Muhammad Al-Hummi (d. 991 C.E.)
Tahir Al-Sharif Al-Murtaza (d. 1004 C.E.)
Muhammad Al-Tusi (d. 1067 C.E.) (Prof. Masud-ul-Hasan, History of Islam, vol. 1, p. 613)
There is also the important collection of the Muwatta of Malik.

The Hadith are part of the Islamic canon, yet Sunni and Shia disagree dramatically over which Hadith to accept. This means that within Islam there are very different canons that are used.

Ibn Sa'd 
Ibn Ishaq 
Some facts on the Sira. The Sira are the biographies of Muhammad's life. These provide the context and chronology of his life, and thus the context and chronology of the Qur'an. The two oldest Sira are:

Muhammad ibn Ishaq (d. 773 C.E.) via ibn Hisham's (d. 840 C.E.) recension, Sirat Rasul Allah. (English translation 798 pages[3].)
Muhammad ibn Sa'd (d. 852 C.E.), Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, (English translation, 1097 pages[4].)
As you can read and see, there are a lot of other essential books in Islam than just the Qur'an, and they are all much bigger than the Qur'an. Both Bukhari and Muslim contain more hadiths than the Qur'an's 6236 verses. I have been told by an ex-Muslim Islamic scholar that Islam is 10% Quran and 90% traditions (Hadith and Sira). The Quran is like the frame of a picture. It sets some boundaries, but the details of the picture are provided by the traditions.

Some Application

1. Do not think that the Qur'an and Bible are basically the same. The Bible contains the writings of many prophets from Moses to Jesus. It provides all its own context and is sufficient for Christian belief and practice. The Qur'an however, only has what Muhammad, one man, recited. It does not provide the context for what it says or have the essential practices of Islam; these come from other Islamic books.

2. If Christians and Muslims want to compare books on any subject then the Hadith and Sira must be included in this comparison for it to be accurate and meaningful. The Hadith and Sira are part of the Islamic canon as much as the Qur'an is. If you see an Islamic leader comparing the Bible to just the Qur'an then have the courage to explain why this is inadequate and misleading.

3. In the media, Islamic leaders, and others, often say that certain practices, like female circumcision, are not authentic Islam because they are not in the Qur'an. However, statements like these are either ill-informed or deliberately misleading because authentic Islam is not based on the Qur'an but on the Qur'an and Sunnah. It is true that the Qur'an does not mention male or female circumcision, but this does not stop circumcision from being an authentic Islamic practice because it comes from the Sunnah.

4. Islam is a complex religion because it is based on so many books, each of which have their own method of study and critical issues. It is very difficult, if not impossible, for most Muslims to be familiar with all these essential books. This means that Muslims must depend upon their scholars to make the complex simple. However, it is possible for a Christian to read and be familiar with the whole Bible. When we invite you to become a Christian we are only asking you to accept the Bible.

Endnotes

[1] Where the hadiths are ordered according to topic.
[2] Where the hadiths are ordered according to narrator.
[3] Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, translated as, The Life of Muhammad, (tr. A. Guillaume), Karachi: Oxford University Press, 1998.
[4] Ibn Sa'ad, Kitab Al-Tabaqat Al-Kabir, (tr. S Moinul Haq) New Delhi: Kitab Bhavan, 2 volumes, no date.

References

Sulaiman Abu Dawud, Sunan Abu-Dawud (translator: Prof. Ahmad Hasan).
Habib Ur Rahman Azami, The Sunnah in Islam, U.K.: UK Islamic Academy, 1995.
Prof. Masud-ul-Hasan, History of Islam, Delhi: Adam Publishers & Distributors, 2002.
Cyril Glassé, The Concise Encyclopedia of Islam, San Francisco: Harper & Row, 1989.

From above I hope you have a little idea of some Islamic Books. The next Post would be what the Quran Says about Christ and the Bible. Then we would now point-out if the Quran actually labelled the Bible has being currupted.

Happy reading.

Posted: at 12-01-2012 03:07 PM (12 years ago) | Newbie

Mr poster,am gladly telling you that,most of your explanations about quranic verses you quoted are absolutely wrong.Let me tell you christians are not accepting prophet Muhammed as their prophet at all,but muslims accept all prophets as their prophets as in the quran.The only truth you know and you dont want to believe is that,prophets were sent one after the other to different categories of people of their times.As stated in bible by jesus that he was only sent to the lost sheep of israel.Which mean jesus was not sent to all mankind but to only israelites.Its known that moses was sent to the people of israel enslaved under the command of king pharaoh of Egypt alone not to other nations.But some people refused to follow him and perished with pharaoh,when moses departed jesus was sent to deliver the lost israelites,some elites of then who rejected him are those that later come after the departure of jesus and compiled the story of jesus and the disciples of his time.Thats why bibles are corruptedly giving verses to suite their needs of diverting people from following the next coming prophet as proclaimed by jesus,that as he was going,the "holy spirit" the "comforter",the "explainer of the day of judgement" etc as prophet Muhammed was described by jesus in bible.He urged his followers to follow him.But to divert peoples attention from the next prophet,at that time,these people who wrote bible falsely represented him as "holy spirit of dove image"which is unseen but can only felt in heart.To clear himself of these people's liars in the adulterated bibles,jesus stated it categorically that,the on coming comforter or anyway he described him,shall be teaching the followers what he didnt teach them and those they dont know.But these people forgot to remove some of these verses that proved them wrong and set jesus free of their liars .My question is that,can unseen teaches person what he dont know?In the holy quran,it was mentioned in several verses of quran that prophet muhammed is sent to all mankind not the groups of persons or nations only, as applicable to other prophets.No one can come to God except through him as stated by jesus is a verse of bible used by jesus to warn the lost sheep of israel of that time that, prophet moses has gone and its him jesus they must follow for God's salvation,but not applicable for people of nowadays.Its because jesus had done enough for introducing prophet Muhammed to them before his departure.As for the comparison of books.Quran is 100% authentic  than bible because chapters and verses of holy quran was sent by God himself through angel Gabriel "Jubril" and directly delivered to him by the angel while bible was written and compiled by people about jesus and his teachings after his departure.Another reason is that bible was written and rewrites into various versions to suite their own side of fake believes.But quran had never and would never be rewrite till end time because God has made it his own duty to guide it himself against any alteration by people of same types that adulterated real bible.As you have stated earlier,quran is the only book authenticated by God to guide other books sent to other prophets.Thats why alterations in bible was detected.My friend, without the departure of one government, can another government rule the same nation?Thats why prophets are sent one after the other.As prophet Muhammed is the last prophet of God and he is sent to all mankind,his religion must be the last religion for mankind for God's salvation.If truely christians believe in him as the last prophet of God unbiasely.As for the teaching of islam,islam need to be taught because its a religion to be practised with rules and regulations and methods of practises.Thats why prophet muhammed was taught by God's angel with other books as explanatory guidelines for the practise of islam and every verses of holy quran  as taught by God himself through angel to prophet muhammed.Thats what also claimed islam as authentic above all.In contrary to christianity that is none directional,but its all about praying,singing and merry making.It only you refuse to accept that Almighty God deserved more than what christians offers.No any method of salvation in it,because its man made.Their is no any ways of salvation stated in bible.Read it well,you will see nothing.As every disciplines of works are taught to meet worldly needs,likewise religions must be taught to achieve paradise of God.My christian friends read my message and shall find islam the best way of God's salvation.I shall provide you more you never know about islam and your christianity very soon.Go and researches every verses of quran you intend to quote,dont just be given wrong explanations of quranic verses you quote.See u again my friend.The learning of islam is your fury,i know but dont worry,as you can lean works and educations, you can also learn islam.     

Posted: at 10-08-2012 01:08 PM (11 years ago) | Upcoming