Latest posts of: Ogunleye Ezekiel Adewale

Islamic banking:
Sanusi looking for trouble
—CAN president
By BEIFOH OSEWELE
Saturday, July 09, 2011
T he latest of the
controversies in Nigeria is
the Islamic Banking being
touted by the Central Bank
of Nigeria (CBN) governor,
Sanusi Lamido Sanusi. In
reaction, the Christian
Association of Nigeria
(CAN) has put its feet on the
ground that it won’t work.
The body suspects and
says there is more to the
agenda than meets the
eye, and is clearly
opposed.
The CAN President, Pastor
Ayo Oritsejafor, in this
explosive interview,
outlines the argument of
the group he leads and
why it would never accept
Islamic banking as
championed by Sanusi.
He also faults Sanusi as
lying to the nation in his
comment that he had made
efforts to reach the
Christians on the matter
without success.
This is a must-read for his
contentions and how
Sanusi has been running
the CBN as a sectional and
religious body in defiance
of the law and the
constitution.
But in conclusion,
Oritsejafor says these
problems coming up from
all corners now, from
security to other matters,
are like intentional traps
and hurdles put in the way
of the president by people
who would not want him
to succeed.
You have been very
critical of the proposed
Islamic banking. What is
your understanding of it
and what is your problem
with Central Bank of
Nigeria governor, Mallam
Sanusi Lamido Sanusi?
First, I want to begin by
saying, I like Sanusi. In
my opinion, he is one of
the people you can look at
in this country and say,
this is a man that has what
it takes to articulate what
he believes; whether it’s
right or wrong, good or
bad. So, for that, I admire
him.
We are not against
Muslims. Muslims are our
brothers and sisters.
Nigeria is a nation that has
both Muslims and
Christians. It doesn’t
matter what we say,
Muslims will always be
here. It doesn’t matter
what Muslims think,
Christians will always be
here. We might as well
accept each other and be
happy, because that’s the
reality. So, we appreciate
them and wish them well.
The problem is this; what
does the original CBN Act
say about non-interest
banking? The original
thing does not specify
Islamic banking. I don’t
know why the CBN
governor is kind of
twisting things in a way to
confuse Nigerians. The
original provision is just
non-interest banking.
Islamic banking is just one
kind among many other
kinds of non-interest
banking. So, why would
CBN, an organization, an
institution that represents
the Federal Government,
that is an institution that
represents all Nigerians
zero in on only on one
kind of non-interest
banking. This is the
problem with Sanusi and
his idea.
In education, there is only
one set of guideline for
those who want to
establish schools.
The Ministry of Education
or any other institution
charged with the
responsibility in Nigeria
will not come out with
Islamic guideline, Christian
guideline, or native doctor
guideline. It’s only one
basic, level playing field
guideline for education.
You want to start a school,
you take the guideline,
vis-à-vis your belief, to go
and start. We have Islamic
universities in Nigeria. We
have Christian
universities. Do they have
different guidelines? They
all have the same
guidelines. This is what we
are saying.
Now, the guidelines for
non-interest banking has
been changed two or three
times.
Why is Sanusi changing it?
Because he is discovering
his mistake. But he doesn’t
want to own up to it. What
he is doing is that he twists
it a little bit here, twists it a
little bit there. Now, the
latest guideline came out
on June 21. If you study it,
it says, Islamic banking,
number one. Then number
two-other non-interest
banking. That to us is
discriminating –
discriminating against
non-Muslims.
Why would you put Islamic
banking on one side, all other
non-interest banking on one
side?
What makes Islamic banking
special or more special?
What makes it different
from other non-interest
banking forms? So, these
are the issues.
Also, if you keep looking
closer, you discover that
even the Islamic banking
itself … Now before I come
to that, they have a
conference going on now
in Abuja (the conference
opened on Monday); why
should he organize an
Islamic banking
conference? Why not have
a non-interest
banking conference? This
is what we are saying.
CBN has no business
promoting a special,
specific, religious kind of
banking. CBN should be
promoting non-interest
banking. And everyone
who is interested in non-
interest banking should be
invited to a non-interest
banking seminar or
conference.
So, are you seeing the problem
we are looking at here?
Now, a lot of money has
been spent promoting
Islamic banking. Why? It’s
wrong. It’s unfair to spend
all that money-
government’s money-on a
sectional kind of banking.
It is those who want to
start Islamic bank that
have the responsibility to
spend that kind of money
and do whatever they
want to do to promote
their bank. Why should
you, as Central Bank
Governor of Nigeria, be
promoting that sectional
banking? Is he telling us
that when Christians start
theirs, he’d go through all
these? I have been told by
a reliable source that he
has employed a lot of
people specifically to run
and promote Islamic
banking. How do you do
that with state money?
You have no right to that.
Now, let us look at Islamic
banking itself…he has told
us there will be no
discrimination. Okay? He
has also told us that
Islamic banking is
governed by Shariah
principles, which means if I
am in piggery farming, and
I go to Islamic bank and
say I need a loan, would
they give me? The answer
is no. So, how can you say
that they are not
discriminatory? They’re
discriminating. It’s
obvious.
So, since it’s like that, CBN
has no business promoting
it. It a private venture and
should be treated so.
Those interested in it can
promote it for themselves
because it’s obvious that
it’s a sectional thing. So,
we don’t quarrel with
Muslims who want Islamic
bank. Go ahead, have
Islamic bank, but not at the
expense of Nigeria. So,
CBN has no business
getting into it.
Now a lot of people have
said that even this so-
called Islamic bank can be
used for terrorism, for
money laundering and to
bring in money for
terrorists. Sanusi has told
us it’s not possible. But I
was reading a newspaper
on Monday where he
revealed that in 1990 or
1999, there were two
banks, according to him,
that applied for Islamic
banking licence and one of
them was Al-Qaeda. They
applied for licence at that
time. And, according to
him, they were turned
down. What stops Al
Qaeda from applying now
through other sources, like
getting Nigerians who
sympathise with them to
make sure they meet all
the guidelines? They
would start it, but it will be
owned by terrorists.
Okay, even if it’s not
owned by terrorists, if
those who start it are
sympathizers with
terrorists, what happens?
So, there are lots of
implications.
Again, as I said I don’t
quarrel with Islamic
banking because we have
a lot of Muslims in Nigeria.
But my point is, CBN and
Sanusi Lamido Sanusi,
have no business
promoting it. That’s the
issue. And there should be
one guideline that covers
all non-interest banking.
And then let everybody go
into the field and fight for
spaces. Get customers for
themselves. Get the thing
running for themselves.
CBN is not supposed to be
in charge of promoting it.
This is the problem,
especially using state
funds to promote Islamic
banking.
Everyday I listen to Sanusi,
it puzzles me how a man
can go all the way with
this kind of thing and hold
on to it. And to imagine
that some Nigerians, for
whatever reason, are
looking and applauding
him.
In fact, is this the time to
be promoting Islamic
banking? Look at the
tension in the nation. Well,
I read in the newspapers
that he is appealing to
Muslims not to join issues
with us. Why is he doing
that? It’s because the thing
is becoming a problem.
Now, it’s raising the
tension in the country.
But some people say if
there’s anyone heating up
the polity, it’s you, Pastor
Ayo Oritsejafor.
How do you react to this
accusation?
Again, you see, it always
puzzles me that it is people
like us that respond to the
wrong things that people
accuse of heating the
polity? No person ever
makes effort to get to the
roots. The person who
started the issue (Islamic
banking) is the one who is
really heating up the
polity. Not the one who is
responding to something.
Now this is the problem.
That was why I said
sometime ago, at whose
expense do we always talk
about the unity of Nigeria.
Is there a certain group in
this country that must
continue to pay the price
for the unity? We just pay
them, sit down and allow
other people to do
whatever they like? And
after they’ve done it and
we respond to it, they say
we are the ones causing
the problem, not the one
that originates its. It
puzzles me. The person
heating the polity is
Sanusi. They should direct
their accusation and their
problem to him.
What do they mean that I am the
one heating up the polity?
That I should let Sanusi have his
way?
Not exactly. They say
since you have access to
Mr. President, who is a
fellow Niger Deltan, you
should seek audience with
him and resolve whatever
issues you have…
(Cuts in) Listen to me; he is
the president of the whole
federation. He is not the
president of Niger Delta.
And he’s a Christian…
But that doesn’t mean he’s
a president of just the
Christians. He’s president of
both Muslims and
Christians.
So as a Christian, what makes you
think the president would sit
down and watch the country
being islamised as you have been
insinuating?
Well, let me say this; do
you really know how he
feels? I don’t know, and
you don’t know.
Why don’t you go to him and find
out?
I don’t want to go to him
because I don’t want it to
look as if because he is a
Christian, that is why we’re
approaching him to get
him to act. No, no, no. What
we are doing is, making
the public to know exactly
what is happening; the
agenda of this gentleman
(Sanusi), and also to make
the public know that
something is wrong. I
think it’s my responsibility
as a leader of a group of
people, who are probably
more than half of the total
population of this country
to do so. I can’t sit down
and watch this kind of
thing happening. It’s
wrong. Again, I repeat,
what we are simply saying
is; have one guideline for
non-interest banking. He
should stop this issue of
having one set of
guideline for Islamic
banking and another set of
guideline for other non-
interest banking. If all is
non-interest banking, then
there should be a level
playing field. We shouldn’t
have one for this and one
for that. That is
discriminatory.
Do you really see this thing as
Sanusi’s agenda or you think he’s
being engineered from somehow?
Well, I don’t have proof of
anybody remotely
controlling him. At the
same time, I don’t rule it
out. But the person I see is
Sanusi. Wherever he got
this idea from, something
is wrong. He should
reconsider, and understand
that he is governor of a
Central Bank, not a Muslim
Central Bank. It’s a Nigerian
Central Bank, for all
Nigerians.
I don’t know whether
you’ve heard that the
approval for Islamic
banking was actually done
by Prof. Soludo?
First of all, I don’t know
why Soludo is not
speaking out. He knows
why. He has his reasons. He
is very quiet on this. Now,
the question is, did Soludo
write out non-interest
banking guideline just for
Islamic banking? Is that
what Soludo did? Or
Soludo put together
guideline for non-interest
banking? I would be very
surprised if Soludo did just
guideline for Islamic
banking. I suspect that that
is not what Soludo did. I
believe what Soludo
probably did was to set
out guidelines for non-
interest banking, which is
okay, which is exactly
what we are talking about.
We are talking about non-
interest banking. Soludo
could not have come out
with only Islamic non-
interest banking guideline.
Not at all.
As journalists, investigate
what I have said now. Go
and find out very well. Or
if you see Sanusi, ask him.
Let him tell us the truth, or
bring out the original thing
that Soludo did. Let
Nigerians see it. And if
Soludo drew up guidelines
just for Islamic banking,
we would like to question
Soludo as to how he came
up with that. So, it’s not for
Sanusi to keep referring to
him. The reason he is doing
that is that he knows
Soludo is a Christian. So, he
has decided to use that as a
very comfortable and
convenient blackmail.
But even at that, does it mean a
Christian cannot do something
wrong?
A Christian too can be
wrong. So, assuming
Soludo actually did that,
Soludo is wrong. Will I say
because he is a Christian,
say that he is right for
doing that? But I am not
very sure that is what
Soludo did. So Sanusi
should bring out the exact
thing that Soludo did.
I would be shocked if
Soludo would ever do that,
because that man is
someone with
international
understanding of how the
economics of the world
operates. He wouldn’t
have had that kind of
narrow-mindedness that
would make him just draw
up guidelines for Islamic
banking.
Sanusi also said that he
invited the Christian
leadership to a conference
where he could have
explained the intricacies of
Islamic banking, but you
didn’t show up
That is not true. It’s not
true. Well, probably you
didn’t hear him well. Or
you didn’t get what he said
well. The truth is (laughs)
this issue of Islamic
banking has been on for a
long time. When did he try
to contact me? He never
did until last week
Thursday. Last week
Thursday, I had a national
meeting of Christian
leaders in Abuja. I was
already in the meeting
with my key leaders when
somebody called me.
Sanusi didn’t talk to me.
Somebody called me and said
Sanusi is asking if he could come
to that meeting to explain to us
what Islamic banking is?
And my reply was no. Are you
getting what I am saying?
We were in a national
meeting; we didn’t plan for
Sanusi. We didn’t gather
because of Sanusi. He got
wind of the meeting and so
he was trying to take
advantage of it. So, we
don’t know the reason he
wanted to show up in that
meeting. And the meeting
had started already. So, for
him to say he wanted to
come and we rebuffed him
is not correct. Let him tell
the truth to the public. It’s
not as if he planned the
meeting. Or we agreed on a
meeting and we didn’t
show up.
In fact, after this meeting I
am talking about, we had a
press conference. There, a
reporter asked me, ‘Sanusi
has been telling people he
consulted widely with
stakeholders, did he
consult with you.’ And I
said, no. Sanusi never
consulted with us. Sanusi
was only trying to consult
with us last Thursday.
When this process had
gone on for so long, you
have changed your policy
two, three times, you have
done all these, now you
are contacting us just last
Thursday. We were already
in a meeting, so we should
have stopped that
meeting, put aside
whatever we had to
discuss just so you can
come. No we can’t do that.
So, I sent back after
consultation with my
colleagues to him that it
was not convenient right
then. That was what I told
him.
And ever since then, he hasn’t
tried to reach out to or make
contact with you?
Not at all. So, I was
shocked when I read what
he was saying in Kano. In
fact, to be honest with you,
some of my colleagues
said thank God we didn’t
allow him come; because
only God knows how he
would have twisted
whatever would have
happened in the meeting.
We were shocked when we
saw in the newspapers that
he tried to consult with us.
Are you disappointed?
Yes, I am highly
disappointed in him that
he would go to that extent.
Is this a man that really
wants to work with the
people? I don’t think so.
Now if you wanted to go
to your Islamic conference
to kind of get more
support from them, make
noise and say all kinds of
things, you ought to have
told them the whole story.
You ought to have let
them know that all this
while, at least, in the last
one year that you have
been doing all what you
have been doing, you
never contacted us.
Let be honest, CBN and
National Christian Centre
are neighbours. We are
opposite each other. This
man never made any
contact with us for the one
year or so that he has been
in this process. We are
neighbours. His office is
here, my office is there. Are
you getting what I am
saying; it was last
Thursday, and because our
offices are very close, he
somehow knew that we
had a meeting. We were
already in the meeting
when my phone rang. Do
you understand what I am
saying?
And it wasn’t Sanusi that called
you?
No, it wasn’t even him that
phoned. It was one of our
Christian leaders who was
supposed to be in that
meeting but was late that
called me to say Sanusi got
in touch with him and he is
saying whether we can
admit him into our
meeting. So, I brought the
matter to my fellow
leaders because not too
long after, this very
gentleman came and
joined us in the meeting.
So, I threw it to them.
Look, I don’t want to start
talking too much, but I am
disappointed in Sanusi.
But whether you’re
disappointed in him or not,
Sanusi has said there is no
going back on Islamic
banking. He said the only
thing that can stop him is
the court.
Are you prepared to go the whole
hog?
Well, let us wait and see. I
have no comment. Let us
just wait and see. That is all
I would want to say for
now.
But the man is going ahead
with it… I wish him the
best. Let us wait and see.
That is all I will tell you. I
know that CAN as an
organisation would not
want to comment on that
right now. But as I have
said, let’s wait and see.
But it is only proper you
spell out your course of
action so that your
followers can know the
sentiment of CAN in this
matter
Just wait and see.
You are already being accused of
incitement and heating the
polity…Why don’t you tell your
followers once and for all what
you intend to do?
Again, I have told you, go
and meet Sanusi. He is the
one inciting one section of
the country against the
other. If he didn’t go into
the issue of Islamic
banking, we wouldn’t be
where we are now. If
Sanusi was talking about
non-interest banking,
period, we would not be
where we are now. So, I am
not going to talk further. I
know that he has said that
we should go to court. Let
us wait and see. Can’t you
wait a bit? Wait a bit. Give
me a few more days and
then ask me again.
One person that was
visibly missing at the
Islamic banking
conference in Abuja was
Mr. President.
Did that surprise you?
(Sighs) Am I the president?
Go and ask him.
Would you have felt let down if
he had been in attendance?
I have no comment. I am
not the president. Go and
ask him why he wasn’t
there. So, I have no
comment. I am not the
president. Go and ask him
why he wasn’t there.
Okay, some people have said, if
you feel so strongly about
Islamic banking, why don’t you
push for Christian banking?
We won’t do that because
when you start a wrong
thing, you cannot in
anyway correct a wrong
thing by just throwing in
something in the middle. If
you want to correct a
wrong thing, go to the root
of that wrong thing and
correct it from there.
At least, they say having Christian
banking would balance the
ticket?
No. That is not a balance.
That is a dangerous
precedent. We don’t want
to see that in Nigeria.
Nigeria is a secular nation.
Somebody said it’s a multi-
religious nation. It’s a
secular nation.
The UK, US and South Africa
are secular nations, but
have Islamic banking.
Yet the world has not come to a
standstill. So why are you bent on
creating a storm in a tea cup over
this issue?
Alright, let me ask two
questions…They have
Islamic banking in the UK.
Good. Number one, in the
UK, do they have the
council of Sharia experts
that are interpreting
Islamic banking in the
Exchequer (Central Bank of
the UK )? Let Sanusi and his
people give us that
answer. My number two
question is how much does
the Islamic banking bring
into the economy of
Britain? We would also
want to know. What does
it add to it? Look at
Pakistan, look at India.
They were once one
country. They were
divided on the same day.
Pakistan operates Islamic
banking, while India
operates regular banking.
Look at the two countries;
which is doing well and
which is not doing well? Do
I have to tell anybody?
The facts are there for all to
see.
From the reports that I
have, even in Saudi Arabia,
which is the headquarters
of all Moslems, and
anything Sharia in the
world, is there oil industry
operated with Sharia law?
The answer is no. It is
operated by regular
banking. If the Islamic
banking is so wonderful,
why is it not operated like
that? It is operated with
regular banks. Go
and check some of these
things, you would see
what I mean. Go round;
you will notice that the
countries they are
mentioning that are stable
and viable countries are
not so because of Islamic
banking.
Now, when they took us
into OIC, they told us that
OIC will make Nigeria to
become great and that the
economy will boom. Is
that what has happened
now? Please, let them tell
me the benefits we are
getting from our
membership of OIC? I will
be very interested. Name
them for us and let us see.
There is no benefit from OIC
for the growth of the
nation. So, you see, there
are certain things that
seem nice on the surface;
that you can decorate,
make look nice and
present to be very nice to
the public. But does that
make it anything? So,
these are just empty things
that are well decorated like
the one Sanusi champions
today. Let us be very
honest with ourselves; is it
Islamic banking that
would change the
economy of Nigeria? We
would be deceiving
ourselves. Let us look at
other nations; how many
nations in this world can
tell you that where they
are now economically
because of Islamic
banking? There is not one.
Not one. No single nation
can tell you that.
So, we have to be very
careful what we are doing
and where we are going.
The way we are going, we
would run into serious
problem, if care is not
taken. We don’t want a
situation where Nigeria
becomes a country where
Muslims would do this,
Christians would do that. Is
this a country based on
religion? Is this not a
secular country? Ours is a
secular nation. That is what
our constitution stands for.
So, what exactly are we
doing to ourselves? That is
why we are saying Sanusi
is the one dragging us into
a religious conflict because
he is now bringing religion
into the economy and into
banking. It is a very
strange development for
the governor of a Central
Bank of a country.
In a way, some of us are
not too surprised because
most of the papers he has
written and most of his
degrees are in Sharia. You
know, this man is a cleric.
He is a mallam. I don’t
know; let me not make
comment that would be
very vexing.
Are you saying he is too partisan
to be a CBN governor?
He is too sectional, in my
opinion. He is too sectional.
I don’t know if partisan is
the word. He is just too
sectional. As I said, I don’t
know why anybody
would want to blame us
who make comments
rather than the person who
starts the problem. We
know that a few years ago
when Soludo was there,
Nigerians went into a
strong debate and finally,
the Arabic lettering in the
naira was removed. Hausa,
Igbo and Yoruba were
brought in. Have you
looked at your naira now?
Do you still have Hausa,
Igbo and Yoruba? They are
not there again.
The Islamic letterings are
back there again.
For God’s sake, what is wrong
with this man?
Look at the naira; there’s
no Igbo, Yoruba or Hausa.
But if I talk, you people
would say I am the one
stirring up the trouble. You
know the man who is
doing this thing; accuse
him. He is creating
problem. What is
happening is that some of
us take notice of these
things and we are crying
out. We’re saying, look,
watch this man. This is the
man dragging Nigeria into
trouble.
Boko Haram problem is
there. There is situation of
insecurity. The country is
tensed up. And this man is
adding to it at this time. He
should be cautioned.
Enough is enough. He
should calm down and let
Nigeria have peace. Sanusi
should stop troubling this
nation.
Religion is something that
carries fire, if you allow it.
And it carries cold water as
well. Why bring religion
into economy? With what
is going on now, we are
playing with fire. Real fire.
This is dangerous. And we
are not the one stirring this
up. It is the man who is
adamant; saying, ‘I would
do it. Only the court can
stop me.’
The Central Bank governor talking
like this?
It is a wonder
America and Britain have
Central Bank governors;
but do you even know
their names? If you know
their names, how many
times do you even hear
them speak? You hardly
hear their voices. But our
own Central Bank
governor, oh God. In fact, I
don’t think politicians are
as loud as him. He is one of
the 37 governors in
Nigeria; and he is louder
than all the ones elected.
The one appointed is so
loud. The ones elected are
not as loud as himself. He is
the one causing problem
for the country.
What would you want to see as a
way out of the problem?
Sanusi has already
suggested going to court.
So are you taking his bait?
As I said, I don’t want to
comment on that yet. Give
me a few days. But also, on
the other hand, all Sanusi
has to do is to be
reasonable. To see the
handwriting on the wall;
that in every segment and
sections of the Nigerian
government, there are
guidelines: guideline
governing education,
guideline governing
telecommunication,
guidelines governing
different things in Nigeria.
In all these sectors, we
don’t have duplicated
guidelines. It is usually
one uniform guideline.
Why highlight religion?
Why don’t you just have
one guideline that covers
all non-interest banking? If
you do that, it doesn’t stop
Moslems from getting a
license.
They can get their license
just like any other non-
interest banking. And you
don’t have to invest
money into it. Let them get
their license. Let them use
their own money to
promote Islamic banking;
to get Nigerians interested
in Islamic banking. Why
must it be the Central Bank
governor? I think there are
enough problems in the
country right now that the
Central Bank governor
should be interested about.
But instead, he is
concerned with Islamic
banking. That is what his
trouble is; making it look
like Islamic banking is
going to solve all our
problems.
Look at all the banks he
told us were dying; and he
pumped in billions of
naira. What is the situation
with those banks?
Sometimes, we hear they
are about to be sold. At
other times, we hear they
will be liquidated. There
are kinds of things we are
hearing. What is going on?
Are those banks healthy?
Are we in a stable banking
situation right now in the
country? If he has not sold
those ones, why create
other problems? I just
cannot understand.
In view of the unfolding events
in the country, the latest of which
is the Boko Haram, do you have
any fear for this country,
particularly given the FBI report
released a few years ago that
said Nigeria may break up in
2015?
Well, first of all, many
years ago, IBB reportedly
said he didn’t know how
Nigeria was still existing.
Nigeria has existed as one
up till this moment not so
much because of our
resolve to live together,
work together and do
things right. But I think
God has been merciful.
Somehow, there has been a
divine touch to helping
Nigeria remain one. But as
we look at the trends, the
events, the things
happening, it is really
frightening. I was looking
at the newspapers and I
saw Boko Haram was
trying to blow up north-
south bridge and all of
that. You see, the thing is
developing very fast. It is
strange when you sit down
and analyse all these
things.
Now while we are still
grappling with all that,
Sanusi is coming with
Islamic banking again. I
am afraid. I want to
continue to pray and ask
those who love Nigeria to
continue to pray. But as we
pray, let us on our own say
to ourselves, we want
Nigeria to remain one;
because if we don’t decide
like that, we are trying to
fulfil prophesy by
ourselves. It is like we
want to help the (FBI)
report to happen faster
than even what the people
predicted. So that is my
fear. What I am saying is
that there are people
working towards it. And
it’s very frightening.
You are the co-chair of
Nigeria Inter-Religious
Council (NIREC) with the
Sultan.
Have you taken some of these
complaints to the body and what
has been the attitude?
The problem is that we
have not had a NIREC
meeting for a while. We
may not have it till
September. That is quite
sometime. There are some
things I would have said,
but I don’t want to get into
it. Then again, I would be
accused of heating up the
polity.
Pastor, I got it from good
authority that your
counterparts in NIREC are
not too comfortable with
your style. They find it too
volatile, to revolutionary.
How do you react to such
charges? Have you any
apologies
Not at all. But I am hoping
that that is not what they
think. I am hoping that is
not what they think or
what they said. But if that’s
what they think or said, I
wish them the best,
because I believe when
you go to an organisation,
you are representing
something, someone or a
group of people. So, I have
a responsibility to
represent my
constituency. I am not
there just to represent
myself. I am there
representing a group of
people. So I must do what
they sent me there to do.
And as much as possible,
that is what I am doing.
My concern is not with
those people throwing the
allegations. My concern is
with the people who sent
me. If the people who sent
me there say ‘we are
uncomfortable with the
way you are doing, don’t
do it like that, do it like
this,’ then I am obligated
to follow the instructions
of those who sent me
there. I am a servant of
those who sent me there. I
am doing what I believe
they want me to do.
They believe as a Christian
leader, you should be
temperate. Not unduly
radical, because now, they
see you more as a fire-
spitting activist than a
religious leader.
What’s your reaction?
Well, again, the issue is
this…I have always said
that when I need to speak,
I must speak, because I am
representing people. When
you look at events that
have been happening in
the north, who are the
majority of people who are
killed? Whose houses are
burnt? Whose businesses
are destroyed? Whose
places of worships are
destroyed? The majority of
people killed, whose
businesses and places of
worship are destroyed, are
Christians. These are the
people I am representing.
If it were the other way
round, my counterpart will
not be quiet. He will speak
up. But, now he really has
no issue to be speaking
about. They have no issue
here. Yes, agreed, that
sometimes, Muslims are
killed. If you hear that one
mosque is burnt, at least,
20 churches have already
been burnt. So, you have
to understand that the
issues on ground for me
are heavy.
Your cross is heavier than that of
your counterpart?
Very, very heavy. In fact,
probably 100 times
heavier. He doesn’t even
have a cross. A Crescent is
what he has. Look, I am
from the South, please tell
me, since you were born,
how many mosques in the
South had been burnt?
Please, count them for me.
How many Muslims have
been targeted and killed in
the South, since you were
born? How many?
Personally, I don’t think I
can even remember. I am
sure the reason I can’t
remember is because
probably it has never
happened or one in a
million.
If such things were happening in
the South, do you think my
friends on the other side would
be quiet?
In fact, by now, Nigeria
would be on fire.
But look at it, everyday, or
every other day there are
attacks. When you check,
Christians are always at the
receiving end. So, it would
be very wrong of me as a
leader to be quiet and just
look.
When you read the Bible,
Jesus was very mild and
temperate. But He caned
people out of the church.
There were situations
where Jesus reacted to
issues. He called a king a
fox. A king at that time
was like the president of a
country. So, Jesus called
the president of a country,
a fox. It is something that
brings something. So, it is
not that one is just an
activist.
Who is an activist, anyway?
They say you are too hot
for their liking
That is for their liking.
What about my own
people who are being
killed? You must not only
consider yourself. Consider
me and consider my
people that are being
killed. So, as long as I am
quiet, I am a nice man?
Why should I be quiet?
What do they want me to
do; just to go and sleep in
Warri? I can’t fall asleep
now. I am alive. I have to
look at issues as they
come. Why is it that you
are not working on your
people to stop doing this?
Am I the only one that
would work for the unity
of Nigeria? Shouldn’t we
work together? It has to be
a joint effort and a joint
project. Haba!
The issue is, they want you
to bring the matter for
discussion in the room
rather than taking them to
the market place. Let me
tell you this, for example,
when the elections were
concluded and the killings
started, I was the one who
called the Sultan, I called
him, Your Eminence, my
friend, look at what is
happening. I was the one
who told Huh?