The Shocking Pagan Origin of CHRISTMAS! (Page 3)

Date: 03-06-2011 10:47 am (12 years ago) | Author: Musa Yusuf
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- chik001 at 10-06-2011 10:48 PM (12 years ago)
(m)
Quote from: cadanre on  9-06-2011 09:21 PM
If ANY christian have any objection that Christmas was really not a pagan in its origin. We are waiting to hear from him. Chik00000000000001 stop acting like a small boy. Face the reality..

...thats the problem right there...
...lack of articulation and of authentication...
...even The Koran talked about the birth...mission...scripture and The Second coming...
...If the Koran had problem with Master Jesus's birth date...it would have stated or made it clear...

...below is one such verses saying about the birth of Jesus:

“The angels said to Mary: 'Allah bids you rejoice in a Word from Him. His name is the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary. He shall be noble in this world and in the next, and shall be favored by Allah. He shall preach to men in his cradle and in the prime of manhood, and shall lead a righteous life.'
Surah 3:45-46


Posted: at 10-06-2011 10:48 PM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac
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- frayobkk at 14-06-2011 08:47 AM (12 years ago)
(m)
@post i dont have my time to read all that but summarise it and tell us in short where are u driving at then i will know whjat to answer
u mention some real point for the little i have readed so better summarise if u want my comment thanks

Posted: at 14-06-2011 08:47 AM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac
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- cadanre at 14-06-2011 08:15 PM (12 years ago)
(f)
Quote from: chik001 on 10-06-2011 10:48 PM
Quote from: cadanre on  9-06-2011 09:21 PM
If ANY christian have any objection that Christmas was really not a pagan in its origin. We are waiting to hear from him. Chik00000000000001 stop acting like a small boy. Face the reality..

...thats the problem right there...
...lack of articulation and of authentication...
...even The Koran talked about the birth...mission...scripture and The Second coming...
...If the Koran had problem with Master Jesus's birth date...it would have stated or made it clear...

...below is one such verses saying about the birth of Jesus:

“The angels said to Mary: 'Allah bids you rejoice in a Word from Him. His name is the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary. He shall be noble in this world and in the next, and shall be favored by Allah. He shall preach to men in his cradle and in the prime of manhood, and shall lead a righteous life.'
Surah 3:45-46




That is the problem with you. You always deviate from the main course. I am talking about the Pagan Origin of CHRISTMAS if you got lost. That is exactly what I am talking about not what Qur'an says about Jesus. Can you please address the exact topic THE SHOCKING PAGAN ORIGIN OF CHRISTMAS without deviating to another unrelated topic?



Posted: at 14-06-2011 08:15 PM (12 years ago) | Hero
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- cadanre at 14-06-2011 08:17 PM (12 years ago)
(f)
Quote from: frayobkk on 14-06-2011 08:47 AM
@post i dont have my time to read all that but summarise it and tell us in short where are u driving at then i will know whjat to answer
u mention some real point for the little i have readed so better summarise if u want my comment thanks

There are millions of people who does not visit NP. I count you as one of them. COMMENT NOT!

Posted: at 14-06-2011 08:17 PM (12 years ago) | Hero
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- cadanre at 14-06-2011 08:42 PM (12 years ago)
(f)
IN SUMMARY

How Did Christmas Come to Be Celebrated on December 25

Roman pagans first introduced the holiday of Saturnalia, a week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25.  During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the weeklong celebration.  The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.”  Each Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week.  At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering this innocent man or woman.

The ancient Greek writer poet and historian Lucian (in his dialogue entitled Saturnalia) describes the festival’s observance in his time.  In addition to human sacrifice, he mentions these customs: widespread intoxication; going from house to house while singing naked; rape and other segxwal license; and consuming human-shaped biscuits (still produced in some English and most German bakeries during the Christmas season).

In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it.  Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians.

The problem was that there was nothing intrinsically Christian about Saturnalia. To remedy this, these Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th, to be Jesus’ birthday.

Christians had little success, however, refining the practices of Saturnalia.  As Stephen Nissenbaum, professor history at the University of Massachussetts, Amherst, writes, “In return for ensuring massive observance of the anniversary of the Savior’s birth by assigning it to this resonant date, the Church for its part tacitly agreed to allow the holiday to be celebrated more or less the way it had always been.”  The earliest Christmas holidays were celebrated by drinking, segxwal indulgence, singing naked in the streets (a precursor of modern caroling), etc.

The Reverend Increase Mather of Boston observed in 1687 that “the early Christians who  first observed the Nativity on December 25 did not do so thinking that Christ was born in that Month, but because the Heathens’ Saturnalia was at that time kept in Rome, and they were willing to have those Pagan Holidays metamorphosed into Christian ones.”  Because of its known pagan origin, Christmas was banned by the Puritans and its observance was illegal in Massachusetts between 1659 and 1681.  However, Christmas was and still is celebrated by most Christians.

Some of the most depraved customs of the Saturnalia carnival were intentionally revived by the Catholic Church in 1466 when Pope Paul II, for the amusement of his Roman citizens, forced Jews to race naked through the streets of the city.  An eyewitness account reports, “Before they were to run, the Jews were richly fed, so as to make the race more difficult for them and at the same time more amusing for spectators.  They ran… amid Rome’s taunting shrieks and peals of laughter, while the Holy Father stood upon a richly ornamented balcony and laughed heartily.”

As part of the Saturnalia carnival throughout the 18th and 19th centuries CE, rabbis of the ghetto in Rome were forced to wear clownish outfits and march through the city streets to the jeers of the crowd, pelted by a variety of missiles. When the Jewish community of Rome sent a petition in1836 to Pope Gregory XVI begging him to stop the annual Saturnalia abuse of the Jewish community, he responded, “It is not opportune to make any innovation.”  On December 25, 1881, Christian leaders whipped the Polish masses into Antisemitic frenzies that led to riots across the country.  In Warsaw 12 Jews were brutally murdered, huge numbers maimed, and many Jewish women were raped.  Two million rubles worth of property was destroyed.

Posted: at 14-06-2011 08:42 PM (12 years ago) | Hero
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- frayobkk at 14-06-2011 09:13 PM (12 years ago)
(m)
If i may ask you how does celebrating christmass affect ur faith
and tell u allso the bibble says whatso ever u agree here on earth in my name
same will be done in havean

Posted: at 14-06-2011 09:13 PM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac
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- cadanre at 14-06-2011 09:43 PM (12 years ago)
(f)
Quote from: frayobkk on 14-06-2011 09:13 PM
If i may ask you how does celebrating christmass affect ur faith
and tell u allso the bibble says whatso ever u agree here on earth in my name
same will be done in havean

I have never said celebrating christmas affects my faith and it will never affect it for I am not a pagan emulator. What I am only saying is CHRISTMAS IS PAGAN in its origin. Is it true or not. If no, Explain................

Posted: at 14-06-2011 09:43 PM (12 years ago) | Hero
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- cadanre at 14-06-2011 09:47 PM (12 years ago)
(f)
Quote from: gimac on 10-06-2011 05:04 AM
Quote from: cadanre on  9-06-2011 09:21 PM
If ANY christian have any objection that Christmas was really not a pagan in its origin. We are waiting to hear from him. Chik00000000000001 stop acting like a small boy. Face the reality..

heheheheh so funny.......am not supprise ,that have been a problem of moslem people about christain,
from what you heard without confirmation.....you dont just say something or carry out without cobnfirmation...really i see you dont know what to believe

And what confirmation have you had that christmas was purely christian not PAGAN in its origin? Let me see your confirmation with concrete proof. Waiting.................!

Posted: at 14-06-2011 09:47 PM (12 years ago) | Hero
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- frayobkk at 14-06-2011 09:53 PM (12 years ago)
(m)
Quote from: cadanre on 14-06-2011 09:43 PM
Quote from: frayobkk on 14-06-2011 09:13 PM
If i may ask you how does celebrating christmass affect ur faith
and tell u allso the bibble says whatso ever u agree here on earth in my name
same will be done in havean

I have never said celebrating christmas affects my faith and it will never affect it for I am not a pagan emulator. What I am only saying is CHRISTMAS IS PAGAN in its origin. Is it true or not. If no, Explain................

i dont know about the origin of date 25 dec but i know for sure that Jesus was not born on 25dec and allso the early christian did not celebrate the birthday of christ or have never come across  any where bibble christ ask then to celebrate his birthday if that is important

Posted: at 14-06-2011 09:53 PM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac
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- livingday at 17-06-2011 01:04 AM (12 years ago)
(m)
Quote from: chik001 on  8-06-2011 03:40 PM
@Livingday
...Let me rephrase the question...
OK...you learned Jesus The Christ was not actually born on December 25 of whatever year...
...were you told the actual date he was born...?
...if yes...then enlighten please...



The word "Christmas" is not actually found anywhere in the entire Bible. In fact, the word "Christmas" was not even invented until about a thousand years after Jesus left this earth. Nearly all aspects of Christmas observance have their roots in Roman custom and religion. The date of December 25th comes from Rome and was a celebration of the Italic god, Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god, that is, the Roman Saturnalia – a rowdy time for conspicuous consumption and unequalled revelry. The earliest reference to Christmas being marked on Dec. 25 comes from the second century after Jesus’ birth. It is considered the first Christmas celebrations were in reaction to the pagan Roman Saturnalia,. This was done long before the birth of Jesus. The pegan saturnalia was much opposed by the more austere leaders among the still-minority Christian sect. Christmas developed as a means of replacing worship of the sun with worship of the Son. By 529 A.D., after Christianity had become the official state religion of the Roman Empire, Emperor Justinian made Christmas a civic holiday. A simple study of the tactics of the Romish Church reveals that in every case, the church absorbed the customs, traditions and general paganism of every tribe, culture and nation in their efforts to increase the number of people under their control. In short, the Romish church told all of these pagan cultures, "Bring your gods, goddesses, rituals and rites, and we will assign Christian sounding titles and names to them. And so in Nigeria we have names such as David Mark, Goodluck Jonathan, Peter James, Mr. Brown etc. Thus to say that Jesus was born on December 25th is a lie! The Lord never spoke of commemorating his birth but rather commanded us to remember the sacrifice of His suffering and death, which purchased our salvation. Why then have we turned these pagan and heathen saturnalia celebrations as birthday of the Lord? Think about it! Can we worship and honour God by involving ourselves with customs and traditions, which God Himself forbade as idolatry- Jeremiah 10: 2-4? Can we convince God to somehow "Christianize" these customs and the whole pretence and lie of Christmas, so we can enjoy ourselves? Can we obey through disobedience?
 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5ozUNbo8F4" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5ozUNbo8F4</a>
Posted: at 17-06-2011 01:04 AM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac
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- wandepope at 17-06-2011 04:30 AM (12 years ago)
(m)
let certain things be clear the first   CHRISTIANS HAVE NO SUN GOD THE ONLY GOD WE KNOW IS JEHOVAH,the second is this  THE SON OF GOD IS WORTH CELEBRATING.so whatever this your post is about and whatever evidences you have about dates and the rest just know that WE KNOW WHO WE ARE CELERATING and if the JESUS has not revealed to any pastor or minister that HE is not happy with the celebration its not SIN against GOD.
Posted: at 17-06-2011 04:30 AM (12 years ago) | Upcoming
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- livingday at 17-06-2011 10:37 AM (12 years ago)
(m)
Nobody is saying you should not celebrate Jesus but only pointed out that christmas was pagan in origin and not the day that Jesus was born. 
Posted: at 17-06-2011 10:37 AM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac
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- cadanre at 17-06-2011 10:47 AM (12 years ago)
(f)
Quote from: frayobkk on 14-06-2011 09:53 PM
Quote from: cadanre on 14-06-2011 09:43 PM
Quote from: frayobkk on 14-06-2011 09:13 PM
If i may ask you how does celebrating christmass affect ur faith
and tell u allso the bibble says whatso ever u agree here on earth in my name
same will be done in havean

I have never said celebrating christmas affects my faith and it will never affect it for I am not a pagan emulator. What I am only saying is CHRISTMAS IS PAGAN in its origin. Is it true or not. If no, Explain................

i dont know about the origin of date 25 dec but i know for sure that Jesus was not born on 25dec and allso the early christian did not celebrate the birthday of christ or have never come across  any where bibble christ ask then to celebrate his birthday if that is important

Good confession.

Posted: at 17-06-2011 10:47 AM (12 years ago) | Hero
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- cadanre at 17-06-2011 10:50 AM (12 years ago)
(f)
Quote from: wandepope on 17-06-2011 04:30 AM
let certain things be clear the first   CHRISTIANS HAVE NO SUN GOD THE ONLY GOD WE KNOW IS JEHOVAH,the second is this  THE SON OF GOD IS WORTH CELEBRATING.so whatever this your post is about and whatever evidences you have about dates and the rest just know that WE KNOW WHO WE ARE CELERATING and if the JESUS has not revealed to any pastor or minister that HE is not happy with the celebration its not SIN against GOD.

Mr indifferent christian. You have no problem whether what you are doing is pagan, this; or that. I hope the remaining christians are not like you.

Posted: at 17-06-2011 10:50 AM (12 years ago) | Hero
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- chik001 at 18-06-2011 11:58 AM (12 years ago)
(m)
Quote from: livingday on 17-06-2011 10:37 AM
Nobody is saying you should not celebrate Jesus but only pointed out that christmas was pagan in origin and not the day that Jesus was born. 

...according to your expression...your sources never told you what date The Christ was born only the date he was NOT born...
...you arrived to a conclusion by listening and believing in a single story...that does not make your point true...
Posted: at 18-06-2011 11:58 AM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac
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- wandepope at 18-06-2011 08:23 PM (12 years ago)
(m)
Quote from: cadanre on 17-06-2011 10:50 AM
Quote from: wandepope on 17-06-2011 04:30 AM
let certain things be clear the first   CHRISTIANS HAVE NO SUN GOD THE ONLY GOD WE KNOW IS JEHOVAH,the second is this  THE SON OF GOD IS WORTH CELEBRATING.so whatever this your post is about and whatever evidences you have about dates and the rest just know that WE KNOW WHO WE ARE CELERATING and if the JESUS has not revealed to any pastor or minister that HE is not happy with the celebration its not SIN against GOD.

Mr indifferent christian. You have no problem whether what you are doing is pagan, this; or that. I hope the remaining christians are not like you.
CHRISTMAS is not just any celebration but also THANKSGIVING to GoD for bringing the one and only perfect reconciliation means.so i am glad to be indifferent from christians that celebrate the thanksgiving to GOD....CERTAINLY THANKING GOD IS NOT PAGAN
Posted: at 18-06-2011 08:23 PM (12 years ago) | Upcoming
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- chik001 at 18-06-2011 09:35 PM (12 years ago)
(m)
Quote from: cadanre on 14-06-2011 09:43 PM
Quote from: frayobkk on 14-06-2011 09:13 PM
If i may ask you how does celebrating christmass affect ur faith
and tell u allso the bibble says whatso ever u agree here on earth in my name
same will be done in havean

I have never said celebrating christmas affects my faith and it will never affect it for I am not a pagan emulator. What I am only saying is CHRISTMAS IS PAGAN in its origin. Is it true or not. If no, Explain................

...if the remembrance of Christ birth is termed as a pagan oriented...by pagans themselves...
...so is most Muslim celebrations and worship...
...do you want us to compare notes...
Posted: at 18-06-2011 09:35 PM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac
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- cadanre at 19-06-2011 10:35 AM (12 years ago)
(f)
Quote from: harakiri on 18-06-2011 01:26 PM
@Poster

This people would rather kill you than answer your questions. They are totally brainwashed and deluded. Read my old thread to see how brain dead people are :

http://www.naijapals.com/modules/naijapals/religion-25/do-you-have-proof-that-the-christian-god-actually-exists/


I have been following your comments and responses to them since then....

Posted: at 19-06-2011 10:35 AM (12 years ago) | Hero
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- cadanre at 19-06-2011 10:39 AM (12 years ago)
(f)
Quote from: chik001 on 18-06-2011 09:35 PM
Quote from: cadanre on 14-06-2011 09:43 PM
Quote from: frayobkk on 14-06-2011 09:13 PM
If i may ask you how does celebrating christmass affect ur faith
and tell u allso the bibble says whatso ever u agree here on earth in my name
same will be done in havean

I have never said celebrating christmas affects my faith and it will never affect it for I am not a pagan emulator. What I am only saying is CHRISTMAS IS PAGAN in its origin. Is it true or not. If no, Explain................

...if the remembrance of Christ birth is termed as a pagan oriented...by pagans themselves...
...so is most Muslim celebrations and worship...
...do you want us to compare notes...

Before you compare the notes by deviating from the main topic (because you are an expert in doing so), address the issue of CHRISTMAS BEING PAGAN IN ORIGIN.

Posted: at 19-06-2011 10:39 AM (12 years ago) | Hero
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- chik001 at 19-06-2011 01:35 PM (12 years ago)
(m)
Quote from: cadanre on 19-06-2011 10:39 AM
Quote from: chik001 on 18-06-2011 09:35 PM
Quote from: cadanre on 14-06-2011 09:43 PM
Quote from: frayobkk on 14-06-2011 09:13 PM
If i may ask you how does celebrating christmass affect ur faith
and tell u allso the bibble says whatso ever u agree here on earth in my name
same will be done in havean

I have never said celebrating christmas affects my faith and it will never affect it for I am not a pagan emulator. What I am only saying is CHRISTMAS IS PAGAN in its origin. Is it true or not. If no, Explain................

...if the remembrance of Christ birth is termed as a pagan oriented...by pagans themselves...
...so is most Muslim celebrations and worship...
...do you want us to compare notes...

Before you compare the notes by deviating from the main topic (because you are an expert in doing so), address the issue of CHRISTMAS BEING PAGAN IN ORIGIN.

...what you and your buddies were able to tell us is based on a single story...your source nor  the Koran did not have a complete story...
...I think yous have become boring...come up with an authenticated post...stop shadow chasing...
Posted: at 19-06-2011 01:35 PM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac
Reply
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