Banning Islamic Veil (Page 11)

Date: 23-04-2010 12:31 am (11 years ago) | Author: Abubakar Tanimu.
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- Mba5 at 23-05-2010 11:41 PM (11 years ago)
(m)
.
Posted: at 23-05-2010 11:41 PM (11 years ago) | Gistmaniac
Reply
- Originalsly at 24-05-2010 12:11 AM (11 years ago)
(m)
Every country has its laws and if you live in that country you are expected to follow its laws. It doesn't mean that we can't discuss whether or not we agree with the law, in this case, the banning of the Islamic veil. I disagree with this law because I think it is part of a crackdown on Muslims. I heard Sarkozy's explanation. He basically said France is a secular country and people should not be publicly displaying their religious choices. If he had also banned the Jews from wearing their yamukas(?), the priests from wearing their collars, the Seiks from wearing their turbans and the Christians from wearing the cross I would have no problem with that law. So many assume it was for security/identification purposes. Where was that officially mentioned? If that were so don't you think that the next step will be no more large beard and lengthy facial hair? That's my take. If you don't like the message please...don't attack the messenger.
Posted: at 24-05-2010 12:11 AM (11 years ago) | Upcoming
Reply
- Mba5 at 24-05-2010 01:42 AM (11 years ago)
(m)
Even Germany are debating the same as at now to ban veil coverage all over in public places.
So we shall see how it goes soon.
Posted: at 24-05-2010 01:42 AM (11 years ago) | Gistmaniac
Reply
- omatu at 24-05-2010 06:04 AM (11 years ago)
(f)
Quote from: Originalsly on 24-05-2010 12:11 AM
Every country has its laws and if you live in that country you are expected to follow its laws. It doesn't mean that we can't discuss whether or not we agree with the law, in this case, the banning of the Islamic veil. I disagree with this law because I think it is part of a crackdown on Muslims. I heard Sarkozy's explanation. He basically said France is a secular country and people should not be publicly displaying their religious choices. If he had also banned the Jews from wearing their yamukas(?), the priests from wearing their collars, the Seiks from wearing their turbans and the Christians from wearing the cross I would have no problem with that law. So many assume it was for security/identification purposes. Where was that officially mentioned? If that were so don't you think that the next step will be no more large beard and lengthy facial hair? That's my take. If you don't like the message please...don't attack the messenger.

What was banned was full body veil.  Blame it on Al Qaeda that dresses like moslem women to commit their criminal acts on innocent civilians.
Posted: at 24-05-2010 06:04 AM (11 years ago) | Gistmaniac
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- preciouslyme at 24-05-2010 07:01 AM (11 years ago)
(f)
 Its really very sad that we all cant just respect one another. We all have our separate believes cant we agree to disagree.  Yes Muslims trace their heritage back to Ishmael. Jewish to Abraham and Christians agree these two people exist even in the bible. respect goes along way. Muhammad taught of Allah as the one true God of all, burning all false images,  giving to the poor, and fasting, he acknowledged Jesus as a prophet also(i believe this is a fact) though he felt that the bible was mis-interpreted by Christians etc... Jesus the son of God preached of loving one another, helping the poor, that no image should be put before him etc. its really such a shame whats going on in the world today that people are ready to fight, insult, injure and even kill yet these religions began on values that included love one another, help the poor, etc.  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Posted: at 24-05-2010 07:01 AM (11 years ago) | Hero
Reply
- babyboy33 at 24-05-2010 11:24 AM (11 years ago)
(m)
Quote from: Mba5 on 24-05-2010 01:42 AM
Even Germany are debating the same as at now to ban veil coverage all over in public places.
So we shall see how it goes soon.
YES MY BROTHER THEY DEBATING ON IT; AND I TELL U IT WILL STOP SOON: THAT IS WER IM LIVEING; THAT IS HOW ONE OF
THEM I MEAN MUSLIM MAN WANT TO BOMB ONE CITY CALL ESSN IN GERMANY HERE AND HE IS NOW IN JAIL:I TELL U SOMETHING PPL GO TO THE BIBLE U WILL SEE A SECOND WIFE OF ABRAHAM SON CALLD ISHMEL U WILL HEAR WHAT GOD SAID ABOUT HIM
AND THE WIFE IS AN MUSILM WOMAN
Posted: at 24-05-2010 11:24 AM (11 years ago) | Newbie
Reply
- Harunshehu at 24-05-2010 11:53 AM (11 years ago)
(m)
Quote from: babyboy33 on 24-05-2010 11:24 AM
Quote from: Mba5 on 24-05-2010 01:42 AM
Even Germany are debating the same as at now to ban veil coverage all over in public places.
So we shall see how it goes soon.
YES MY BROTHER THEY DEBATING ON IT; AND I TELL U IT WILL STOP SOON: THAT IS WER IM LIVEING; THAT IS HOW ONE OF
THEM I MEAN MUSLIM MAN WANT TO BOMB ONE CITY CALL ESSN IN GERMANY HERE AND HE IS NOW IN JAIL:I TELL U SOMETHING PPL GO TO THE BIBLE U WILL SEE A SECOND WIFE OF ABRAHAM SON CALLD ISHMEL U WILL HEAR WHAT GOD SAID ABOUT HIM
AND THE WIFE IS AN MUSILM WOMAN

Bros babyboy33, which Version of the Bible do you have? I suggest you read clearly below with evidence:


(Genesis 15:4): "And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him [Abraham], saying. This [Eliezer of Damascus] shall not be thine heir, but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir." So Ishmael was also heir.

Genesis 16:10: "And the angel of the Lord said unco her [Hagar], I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude."

Genesis 17:20: "And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly: twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation."

Genesis 21:13: "And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed."
Genesis 21:18: "Arise, lift up the lad [Ishmael], and hold him in thine hand, for I will make him a great nation."

Deuteronomy 21:15-17: "If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated: Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn: But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of the strength; the right of the firstborn is his."

Islam does not deny God's blessings on Isaac and his descendants, but the son of promise is Ishmael from whom later arose Muhammad [PBUH] as the Seal of all Prophets.

I just wish someone will relax here and keep your hatred and prejudices with you, i dont know abt anybody but am a Muslim and am proud to be one.



Posted: at 24-05-2010 11:53 AM (11 years ago) | Upcoming
Reply
- Mba5 at 24-05-2010 12:05 PM (11 years ago)
(m)
Quote from: Harunshehu on 24-05-2010 11:53 AM
Quote from: babyboy33 on 24-05-2010 11:24 AM
Quote from: Mba5 on 24-05-2010 01:42 AM
Even Germany are debating the same as at now to ban veil coverage all over in public places.
So we shall see how it goes soon.
YES MY BROTHER THEY DEBATING ON IT; AND I TELL U IT WILL STOP SOON: THAT IS WER IM LIVEING; THAT IS HOW ONE OF
THEM I MEAN MUSLIM MAN WANT TO BOMB ONE CITY CALL ESSN IN GERMANY HERE AND HE IS NOW IN JAIL:I TELL U SOMETHING PPL GO TO THE BIBLE U WILL SEE A SECOND WIFE OF ABRAHAM SON CALLD ISHMEL U WILL HEAR WHAT GOD SAID ABOUT HIM
AND THE WIFE IS AN MUSILM WOMAN

Bros babyboy33, which Version of the Bible do you have? I suggest you read clearly below with evidence:


(Genesis 15:4): "And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him [Abraham], saying. This [Eliezer of Damascus] shall not be thine heir, but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir." So Ishmael was also heir.

Genesis 16:10: "And the angel of the Lord said unco her [Hagar], I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude."

Genesis 17:20: "And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly: twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation."

Genesis 21:13: "And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed."
Genesis 21:18: "Arise, lift up the lad [Ishmael], and hold him in thine hand, for I will make him a great nation."

Deuteronomy 21:15-17: "If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated: Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn: But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of the strength; the right of the firstborn is his."

Islam does not deny God's blessings on Isaac and his descendants, but the son of promise is Ishmael from whom later arose Muhammad [PBUH] as the Seal of all Prophets.

I just wish someone will relax here and keep your hatred and prejudices with you, i dont know abt anybody but am a Muslim and am proud to be one.




You now believe in the Bible with those verses you just outlined above???
That is good to know but do you believe every other verses in the same Bible???
Posted: at 24-05-2010 12:05 PM (11 years ago) | Gistmaniac
Reply
- Harunshehu at 24-05-2010 12:17 PM (11 years ago)
(m)
Quote from: Mba5 on 24-05-2010 12:05 PM
Quote from: Harunshehu on 24-05-2010 11:53 AM
Quote from: babyboy33 on 24-05-2010 11:24 AM
Quote from: Mba5 on 24-05-2010 01:42 AM
Even Germany are debating the same as at now to ban veil coverage all over in public places.
So we shall see how it goes soon.
YES MY BROTHER THEY DEBATING ON IT; AND I TELL U IT WILL STOP SOON: THAT IS WER IM LIVEING; THAT IS HOW ONE OF
THEM I MEAN MUSLIM MAN WANT TO BOMB ONE CITY CALL ESSN IN GERMANY HERE AND HE IS NOW IN JAIL:I TELL U SOMETHING PPL GO TO THE BIBLE U WILL SEE A SECOND WIFE OF ABRAHAM SON CALLD ISHMEL U WILL HEAR WHAT GOD SAID ABOUT HIM
AND THE WIFE IS AN MUSILM WOMAN

Bros babyboy33, which Version of the Bible do you have? I suggest you read clearly below with evidence:


(Genesis 15:4): "And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him [Abraham], saying. This [Eliezer of Damascus] shall not be thine heir, but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir." So Ishmael was also heir.

Genesis 16:10: "And the angel of the Lord said unco her [Hagar], I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude."

Genesis 17:20: "And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly: twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation."

Genesis 21:13: "And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed."
Genesis 21:18: "Arise, lift up the lad [Ishmael], and hold him in thine hand, for I will make him a great nation."

Deuteronomy 21:15-17: "If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated: Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn: But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of the strength; the right of the firstborn is his."

Islam does not deny God's blessings on Isaac and his descendants, but the son of promise is Ishmael from whom later arose Muhammad [PBUH] as the Seal of all Prophets.

I just wish someone will relax here and keep your hatred and prejudices with you, i dont know abt anybody but am a Muslim and am proud to be one.




You now believe in the Bible with those verses you just outlined above???
That is good to know but do you believe every other verses in the same Bible???


I never denied the Bible, this is one of the wrong ideas most Christians have about Muslims. It is part of a Muslim faith to believe in all God's holy books; the Bible,Psalm of David, Torah of Moses and the Quran of Muhammad peace be upon them all.


Posted: at 24-05-2010 12:17 PM (11 years ago) | Upcoming
Reply
- Mba5 at 24-05-2010 12:42 PM (11 years ago)
(m)
In that case you should believe in all the Bible said and not agreeing to the verses that favors your stand and reject or neglect the other.
Posted: at 24-05-2010 12:42 PM (11 years ago) | Gistmaniac
Reply
- Harunshehu at 24-05-2010 01:49 PM (11 years ago)
(m)
God knows best, I will say no more on this....

Posted: at 24-05-2010 01:49 PM (11 years ago) | Upcoming
Reply
- cadanre at 24-05-2010 01:58 PM (11 years ago)
(f)
Quote from: Mba5 on 24-05-2010 12:05 PM
Quote from: Harunshehu on 24-05-2010 11:53 AM
Quote from: babyboy33 on 24-05-2010 11:24 AM
Quote from: Mba5 on 24-05-2010 01:42 AM
Even Germany are debating the same as at now to ban veil coverage all over in public places.
So we shall see how it goes soon.
YES MY BROTHER THEY DEBATING ON IT; AND I TELL U IT WILL STOP SOON: THAT IS WER IM LIVEING; THAT IS HOW ONE OF
THEM I MEAN MUSLIM MAN WANT TO BOMB ONE CITY CALL ESSN IN GERMANY HERE AND HE IS NOW IN JAIL:I TELL U SOMETHING PPL GO TO THE BIBLE U WILL SEE A SECOND WIFE OF ABRAHAM SON CALLD ISHMEL U WILL HEAR WHAT GOD SAID ABOUT HIM
AND THE WIFE IS AN MUSILM WOMAN

Bros babyboy33, which Version of the Bible do you have? I suggest you read clearly below with evidence:


(Genesis 15:4): "And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him [Abraham], saying. This [Eliezer of Damascus] shall not be thine heir, but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir." So Ishmael was also heir.

Genesis 16:10: "And the angel of the Lord said unco her [Hagar], I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude."

Genesis 17:20: "And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly: twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation."

Genesis 21:13: "And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed."
Genesis 21:18: "Arise, lift up the lad [Ishmael], and hold him in thine hand, for I will make him a great nation."

Deuteronomy 21:15-17: "If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated: Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn: But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of the strength; the right of the firstborn is his."

Islam does not deny God's blessings on Isaac and his descendants, but the son of promise is Ishmael from whom later arose Muhammad [PBUH] as the Seal of all Prophets.

I just wish someone will relax here and keep your hatred and prejudices with you, i dont know abt anybody but am a Muslim and am proud to be one.




You now believe in the Bible with those verses you just outlined above???
That is good to know but do you believe every other verses in the same Bible???

At least you, you believe in it and he quoted it for your information. If to say it was Qur'an that he quoted, you will not believe him.

Posted: at 24-05-2010 01:58 PM (11 years ago) | Hero
Reply
- omatu at 24-05-2010 03:12 PM (11 years ago)
(f)
@Harunshehu - sincere thanks for having an intelligent discussion about the scriptures with issues concerning Ishmael and Isaac.  You did add on your own that Ishmael was the son of the promise, I will have to disagree because the Holy Scripture did not accord Ishmael as the son of the promise.  Isaac, the son of Sarah was the one called the son of the promise from God.

Romans 9:9:
   9For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

Hebrews 11:17
By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

Genesis 16

   1Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar.

   2And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.

   3And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

   4And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.

   5And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee.

   6But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid is in thine hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face.

   7And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.

   8And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.

   9And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.

   10And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.

   11And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.

   12And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
Posted: at 24-05-2010 03:12 PM (11 years ago) | Gistmaniac
Reply
- omatu at 24-05-2010 03:18 PM (11 years ago)
(f)
@Harunshehu - Please read Genesis 17 again and you will see that Isaac is the son of the promise.  God acknowledge Ishamael and multiplied him greatly, but it is Isaac and his seed did God make a covenant with.  Please see below.  Thanks.

Genesis 17:
15And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.

   16And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

   17Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?

   18And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!

   19And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

   20And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

   21But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

   22And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
Posted: at 24-05-2010 03:18 PM (11 years ago) | Gistmaniac
Reply
- omatu at 24-05-2010 03:26 PM (11 years ago)
(f)
@Harunshehu - please see below from the passages in the bible that you brought up where it repeatedly tells you that Isaac was the covenant child and the seed of the promise according to Almighty God.  Ishamel was definitely recognized as Abrams seed, but Isaac was the promised seed.

Genesis 21

   1And the LORD visited Sarah as he had said, and the LORD did unto Sarah as he had spoken.

   2For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him.

   3And Abraham called the name of his son that was born unto him, whom Sarah bare to him, Isaac.

   4And Abraham circumcised his son Isaac being eight days old, as God had commanded him.

   5And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him.

   6And Sarah said, God hath made me to laugh, so that all that hear will laugh with me.

   7And she said, Who would have said unto Abraham, that Sarah should have given children suck? for I have born him a son in his old age.

   8And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned.

   9And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.

   10Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.

   11And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.

   12And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

   13And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.

   14And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.

God is the one that made this decision on his own, not Abraham, not Sarah, not Haggai.  We have to respect God's decision because He is the one that chose Isaac as the promised seed.


Posted: at 24-05-2010 03:26 PM (11 years ago) | Gistmaniac
Reply
- Mba5 at 24-05-2010 03:27 PM (11 years ago)
(m)
Quote from: omatu on 24-05-2010 03:12 PM
@Harunshehu - sincere thanks for having an intelligent discussion about the scriptures with issues concerning Ishmael and Isaac.  You did add on your own that Ishmael was the son of the promise, I will have to disagree because the Holy Scripture did not accord Ishmael as the son of the promise.  Isaac, the son of Sarah was the one called the son of the promise from God.

Romans 9:9:
   9For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

Hebrews 11:17
By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

Genesis 16

   1Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar.

   2And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.

   3And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

   4And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.

   5And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee.

   6But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid is in thine hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face.

   7And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.

   8And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.

   9And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.

   10And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.

   11And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.

   12And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

@Omatu! Omatu!! Omatu!!! That is why I so much have respect for you particular woman of wisdom with the absolute knowledge of the most High God.
Thank you very much respected woman among men.
Posted: at 24-05-2010 03:27 PM (11 years ago) | Gistmaniac
Reply
- omatu at 24-05-2010 03:27 PM (11 years ago)
(f)
Quote from: Harunshehu on 24-05-2010 01:49 PM
God knows best, I will say no more on this....
God knows best and we must all endeavour to acknowledge God's words and not put a spin and add things to God's words.
Posted: at 24-05-2010 03:27 PM (11 years ago) | Gistmaniac
Reply
- omatu at 24-05-2010 03:28 PM (11 years ago)
(f)
Quote from: Mba5 on 24-05-2010 03:27 PM
Quote from: omatu on 24-05-2010 03:12 PM
@Harunshehu - sincere thanks for having an intelligent discussion about the scriptures with issues concerning Ishmael and Isaac.  You did add on your own that Ishmael was the son of the promise, I will have to disagree because the Holy Scripture did not accord Ishmael as the son of the promise.  Isaac, the son of Sarah was the one called the son of the promise from God.

Romans 9:9:
   9For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

Hebrews 11:17
By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

Genesis 16

   1Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar.

   2And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.

   3And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

   4And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.

   5And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee.

   6But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid is in thine hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face.

   7And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.

   8And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.

   9And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.

   10And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.

   11And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.

   12And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

@Omatu! Omatu!! Omatu!!! That is why I so much have respect for you particular woman of wisdom with the absolute knowledge of the most High God.
Thank you very much respected woman among men.

Thank you very much Mba.  To God be All the Glory.
Posted: at 24-05-2010 03:28 PM (11 years ago) | Gistmaniac
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- Mba5 at 24-05-2010 03:42 PM (11 years ago)
(m)
Quote from: Harunshehu on 24-05-2010 01:49 PM
God knows best, I will say no more on this....

Abeg weey you eehhh Harunshehu are you cleared on the simple truth???
God bless you too as you follow the right path.
Let me hear you say Amen.
Posted: at 24-05-2010 03:42 PM (11 years ago) | Gistmaniac
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- omatu at 24-05-2010 03:43 PM (11 years ago)
(f)
15If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated:
@Harunshehu - You brought up Deuteronomy 21
   16Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn:

   17But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his.

You are correct in the rules given to us in the scriptures on how to share between the beloved wife and the hated wife children.  In the Book of Genesis, we saw that God had already divided the portions between Ishmael and Isaac all by Himself.  God is not a man that He should lie.  He made a promise to Abraham through Sarah and He kept His promise.  It is true that Abraham, Sarah and Hagai went against God's promise, but at the end, God still honored His promise to Abraham which was in Isaac from Sarah.

We as humans try so many times to fulfill God's promise to us by ourselves without waiting upon the Lord.





Posted: at 24-05-2010 03:43 PM (11 years ago) | Gistmaniac
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