Ibrahim Shekarau is a former governor of Kano State. He also served as senator and minister of Education.
In this interview monitored on Channels Television, he speaks on the state of the nation, calls for a new constitution and the relationship between the federal and state governments, among other issues. FELIX NWANERI brings the excerpts
Some eminent Nigerians under the aegis of The Patriots visited President Bola Tinubu recently and proposed a new constitution for the country but we have the report of the 2014 National Conference and other related documents gathering dust somewhere. What do you think is the way forward?
I have always had the opinion that Nigeria has enough on the nose to govern our operations – the Constitution and various legislations. Our problem is attitudinal.
Our leaders must accept that there are a certain number of things that are not necessarily written down in the Constitution. I have always argued what I call ‘the constitution of common sense.”
There are a number of things that ordinarily, irresponsible leadership and organized leadership that recognize its responsibility and the responsibility of others should not be a problem. Agreed, the constitution has defined the role of the federal, state and the local governments.
These definitions are likely to allow smooth operation and some level of independence, but that does not mean we should be operating at a parallel dimension because ultimately, it is the same common pool of people that are in government.
The people at the local government are the same people at the state level, same people at the federal level. So, there has to be some synergy; there has to be some understanding, there has to be some cooperation.
We have had this in the past; there were instances that I remember when I was governor, President Olusegun Obasanjo called us, he said look, while the Constitution agrees or spells out that you are independent of the Federal Government, but there should be some synergy and some understanding.
And I remember very well that the issue then was he was complaining that most governors don’t even inform him when they want to travel out and he would want to reach out to a particular governor and somebody will tell him that ‘I saw your governor yesterday on the streets of London’ and he feels very embarrassed.
He said, just let me know. The Constitution doesn’t have to say that no governor should move out of his state without the approval of Mr. President. It’s not about approval. It’s not about taking permission from the president. But you’re operating within the similar environment, so whatever the President does affects every citizen of Nigeria, whether at state level or at the local government level and visibly the state.
So, in my opinion, we need not go this length of a new confab or a new conference. The question I kept emphasizing with all due respect to people occupying offices, we need to put our thinking cap, know what is right at any given time, give due regard to the various levels of our operation, and some understanding.
I was in opposition for almost all the period I served as governor for eight years, but we operated very well with the Federal Government. There were points of disagreement and we did that with due respect. I recall very well that President Obasanjo also reciprocated by respecting some of us in the opposition.
Being in opposition doesn’t mean you should be subservient to the Federal Government. Of course, my state was independent, we were in different parties, but we knew that the central government coordinates all that we do.
There is a total disconnect, there is loss of confidence, people are not carried along in governance. So, we need to restore confidence in governance in Nigeria at all levels
Many believe that the constitution is the country’s main problem; do you think jettisoning the constitution is the right way to go? No constitution on earth is perfect hence our constitution no matter what changes you make will make it perfect. Circumstances do dictate what to adjust, what to change, what to remove, what to add, what to cancel and what to improve upon. So, it still boils down to the operators of the Constitution. Let me give you an example.
The Constitution suppresses powers between the executive and the legislature; it is just to give a defined role of each of the two arms of government. But what I keep emphasizing is that the ultimate goal is the generality of the Nigerian populace. So, whatever law you do, it is affecting the general public and therefore there must be a meeting point. I have said the executive should always carry the legislator along.
If I may quickly give an example of my operations in Kano, I had 40 House Assembly members out of which about a dozen were in the opposition then, the Peoples PDP Democratic Party (PDP) but there was nothing we did that they were not carry them along. I met them regularly till the end of my government; we ate lunch, dinner and exchanged felicitations. We joked and we sat down to discuss issues of the state.
They would advise us and we would advise them. There was no time I sent any proposal of any legislation to the state Assembly without we sitting down to discuss the details, dotting the ‘I’ and crossing the ‘Ts.’ So, by the time we sent anything to the State Assembly, almost all of them were in the picture.
There was no time we prepared any budget without the state Assembly. I expect such a thing to operate even at the national level, where the president will be interacting, not only even with the leadership of the National Assembly.
If I were the president, once in a while, at least twice in a year, I will meet all the legislators and declare immunity for all; let everybody say whatever he wants. Anybody that will abuse you inside the room will not do so outside on the street. Allow them to vomit. Let the opposition be there.
Let there be discussion with the members. Do it regularly. In fact, I was doing it monthly in my state. So, for the eight years, I never had disagreement with my state Assembly.
The traditional rulers too; I didn’t have to wait for anybody to make provision in the Constitution before I involved the traditional institutions. I set up an advisory council of about 50 wise men with all categories; the youth, the women, the young, the old, the bureaucrats and the politicians, the religious leaders.
The Emir of Kano and I were the co- chairmen and we met the last Thursday of every month. We discussed issues of the state and I told that council ‘you have no-go area.’
There were instances when the council would invite me to explain what we have done in government, what policy we brought, what is the wisdom. So, we interacted and I carried the traditional institutions along. I met all the district heads. I set up committees in the local governments and the wards, and we met them every month. We met the local governments, giving them sitting allowances.
We met the local governments, bought new brand vehicles for all the districts to enable them to take regular tours to their local governments, and for that reason, every week, every district must turn in a report of what is happening in his constituency. We reviewed their salaries and scheme of service, we made them to be happy.
We didn’t have to wait for the Constitution and the legislature. I remember when President Umaru Yar’Adua came into office; the very month he was sworn in, he invited all of us, the governors, regardless of our political affiliation. He said: ‘Look, you and I are now elected. Let’s forget our political differences. Let’s forget our parties.
You are my number one liaison officer in your states.’ He made sure there was nothing he did in the state without involving us. I was an opposition then in the All Nigeria Peoples Party (AlNPP), Yar’Adua was in PDP, but he invited me.
There was no appointment he made from Kano – minister, ambassador or adviser – without calling me to make my own input before he even announced it to the appointee. There was no disagreement between me and the minister or the issue of the federal fighting the state governor.
Do you mean that the president should draw more stakeholders close to himself?
Absolutely! Interaction with the state governors; open one, not just the usual formal council meeting. Let there be an atmosphere of friendliness, an atmosphere of relaxation.
Send out all the media people, the aides and so on. Sit with them, let them open up. Through that, you learn a lot, and then you share with them your policies.
How do you suggest the disconnect between the government and the people should be addressed?
You see, even a child of two or three years, when you recognize such a child, the child will respect you. The child will respond. So, it depends.
There is a total disconnect, there is loss of confidence, people are not carried along in governance. So, we need to restore confidence in governance in Nigeria at all levels. We have a situation where a governor will just wake up, behaving like a military governor, deciding, that Project A should be there, Project B should be there without any consultations.
What we’re doing, as I told you earlier on, if the child, if the youth know that you are involving their elders in the process of governors, they will certainly listen to them.
If you know that I respect your father, I visit him, he visits me, we discuss whatever we do, there is no way you as a child of your father will disrespect me.
That’s why I said the problem is that of attitude. Fortunately, I’m not speaking of anything abstract. I have done it. It is possible. It is working. It worked for us.
What is your take on the narrative that some Northern elites are against President Bola Tinubu’s administration?
I think that is very naive. I don’t trust that. I don’t believe in that. You see, we have had crises in the past. There were killings; there were destruction of property in Lagos.
That didn’t mean that they were after the government of that particular time. I don’t even believe the excuse that it is from the opposition.
Does a hungry man need anybody to instigate him when he gets the slightest opportunity? A hungry man, people say, is an angry man.
Are you not worried over the Kano kingship tussle and what is happening in the emirate?
I think I beg to decline because I’m a very senior member of the Emirate Council. Apart from that, I have governed that state. I’m a very senior citizen of the state and the matter is in court.
The day the matter went to court, I said I will not discuss it, I will not intervene, I will not interfere because the matter is in court. So, I don’t want to talk about it.
But does it bother you?
Naturally, I am from Kano, I will want everything in Kano to be peaceful. So, we are waiting and my prayer is that we overcome it soonest because we need the traditional institution.
I just told you about how I engaged them, how I involved them, and that led to peace.
Would you rather prefer a more political approach to resolve it?
Unfortunately, it is the political angle that seems to have led us into all these crises. If the politicians have kept away from all of these things, and of course, the traditional institutions properly engaged, I don’t see any area of disagreement.
Just the same way I explained the Federal Government, state and local government, the same way the traditional institutions are leaders by their own right in society; the governor or the government and any government appointee is also a leader. There has to be this synergy of understanding, I’ve just told you the 50 people Advisory Council I set up.
It was the Emir of Kano and I, who were presiding over such a city. So, you find that by involving the Emir himself, bringing myself and all categories of people in that Assembly, we were already working together and everybody was happy.
With trillions shared among the three tiers of government, the big question is: How responsible are the federal, state and local governments, and can we sustain the way things are going?
Certainly, we cannot. And people have been crying out, this system is certainly too expensive, and unfortunately, apart from the high cost of running the government, with all due respect, we are not getting the right people all the time in position of offices.
A situation whereby people get to office because of the money they have, because of godfatherism, because of party influence and so on, we can never get it right until the process is cleaned up enough that the right people with the right background and experience are allowed to go into office, whether elected or appointed.
So, I think our greatest problem, as I see it, having gone through all the processes, is the problem of getting the people occupying offices, be it executive position or appointment at any level, appreciating the fact that they are there to serve.
That’s one. Number two, you need to have the ability to weigh and identify people’s priorities. It is not about your priority as president, it is not about your priority as a party, it is not about the priority of the governor and so on. It is about the priority of the people you are governing.
If there is a problem on a particular policy, it does not mean scrapping it totally is the solution. You look into it; find ways of adjustments to carry people along
But a manifesto was sold to the people…
Well, with all due respect, I’ve said it sometime that most of those elected have never set their eyes on the manifestos of their respective parties. There is hardly any party that does not have a manifesto and a constitution.
There was a time our party went as far as saying you have to sign undertaking as a candidate that you will operate the manifesto of the party by the time you get into office but the way we are operating the manifestos of the various parties is the manifesto of the mind of the chief executive.
If that is not the case, you will not be seeing all of these rubbish going on, misplacement of priorities and very bogus projects, elephant projects, billions of Naira being wasted while the people that you are governing are dying.
Basic things are not there. So, I think we need a lot of societal orientation, not only on the electorate, to understand the need to elect in the right people, but also a review of the process even within the political parties.
The process is such that the political parties will have candidates that are really acceptable to the people, candidates, that people are judged to have got all what it takes to be there.
But what will happen today is a matter of people coming into office, behaving as I said earlier, with all due respect to the military governors. They just wake up and decide a particular project, no checks and balances, no consultations.
What do you think this government needs to do urgently to turn around the negative indices?
Honestly, I expect one or two looks at what people call low hanging fruits and address them. You see the issue of this subsidy matter, to be or not to be, everybody agreed, but I think it was here on this platform that I said if I were the president, I wouldn’t have mentioned anything about subsidy the day of my swearing-in.
To be fair to him, Buhari government did not put it in the 2023, budget, and he came midway. Instead of sitting down to see what it is, if I were him, I wouldn’t make any reference to it until I get into office. I get my economic advisers, experienced people and tell them let’s look at what the previous government had done.
Some people said it was audacious; how do we reverse the consequences that we are seeing?
Well, reversing the consequences is going back to the drawing board. From the address he gave to the nation during the protest, it is as if he was saying the issue of subsidy is gone and they are not going to revisit it.
I think that was a very serious error. If I were the President, I will admit that there were problems, accept that there were some errors and that we are going to look at it, and immediately after that, people will see you putting measures in place to look into the matter.
Let there be some open public hearing, technical people sitting down to see what exactly is going on. Up to this moment, there are arguments that subsidy is still being paid in some whatever name you call it.
So, if you are still paying subsidy in a different name, in different ways, why now tell the nation that there is no going back on subsidy? Every person in Nigeria, especially at the elite level believe that, yes, subsidy was found to be a source of wastages.
That does not mean it should not be revisited and looked into. If I were him, I will set up a technical committee. I hope that is being done, but the public are not being carried along. It’s like throwing the baby with the bath water.
If there are problems in a particular system, if there is a problem on a particular policy, it does not mean scrapping it totally is the solution. You look into it; find ways of adjustments to carry people along.
The argument in some quarters is that former President Buhari left a dead economy; would you then blame President Tinubu?
There is hardly any new government that does not inherit problems and no government leaves without issues. This blame game should not be there.
Buhari spent almost two-third of his time blaming the PDP government; if Tinubu will come and start blaming Buhari, it’s not the issue, there are always going to be problems on ground. What is important is your effort to address the problems.
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