It is surprising how the devil has so beclouded the reasoning of some people that they question the existence of God expecting proofs.I can only say that God or His existence is not dependent on human proof(s) or perception.In life,beyond the physical things that we all can see with our optical eyes,there are also others that cannot be seen.In other words,we have the physical and the spiritual realm.Some people are able to operate in both realms by the grace of God whereas others only operate on the physical realm.
In essence,those who are mere mortals or carnal minded are those who actually require proofs to accede to the truth of God's existence.No wonder the scripture stated in Luke17:20-21 that the kingdom of God is not by observation.Blessed is he who has not seen but believes.
Posted: at 28-06-2011 09:16 PM (12 years ago) | Upcoming
democrazy at 28-06-2011 09:54 PM (12 years ago) (m)
Am sure nomal people will disagree with the praise given to people who have not seen but believe.
But since you are writing this and starting a forum topic, I expect you do know what you are saying.
Can I ask you this, as it bothers me a lot and can help with my understanding........
"In essence,those who are mere mortals or carnal minded are those who actually require proofs to accede to the truth of God's existence"
Can you see spiritually? or Have you seen the spiritual realm? This will help me understand who you refer to as a mere mortal or a carnal mind.
Thanks.
Posted: at 28-06-2011 09:54 PM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac
harold634 at 28-06-2011 10:04 PM (12 years ago) (m)
@Democrazy, do u want to feel God? are u ready to do what i'm going to tell u? Can u pay the prize by forsaking many things? if u are ready, answer yes and i will give u some guidelines now. By the time u are true, u will know blame ur previous life of doubting God.
Posted: at 28-06-2011 10:04 PM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac
@Democracy I do not intend the interpretation you are trying to make out of this issue.However,I'll not fail to maximize this opportunity to adumbrate the truth which is that the christian God is alive and do exists.Concerning your question,I did not use those words-mere mortals or carnal mind-to insult or ridicule anyone or group.Mere mortal or carnal mind refers to the nature of man as a result of the corruption brought about by the disobedience of Adam and Eve at the garden of Eden.This eventually brought about enemity between God and man as man is seperated from God,if you like you can call it spiritual death and the state of man-mere mortal.This was not originally the plan of God.Remember God created man in His image and likeness in Genesis 1:26.All these changed when man obeyed the devil.Of course,you are a slave to whoever you choose to obey.God in His infinite mervy still looked for a way to restore man to the original state;this is where the new creation belong-partakers of His divine nature,2 Peter 1:4.So I hope you now know who mere mortals or carnal mind is/are?
Posted: at 28-06-2011 10:28 PM (12 years ago) | Upcoming
[If you need proof of something, then you don't have faith, and without faith you don't believe./quote]
Let him be reminded that the Bible said in Hebrews 11:6 without faith,it is impossible to please God.We have to pray that their soul,body and spirit will begin to yield to the spirit of God such that the Word would have free course in their lives in Jesus name.
Posted: at 28-06-2011 10:38 PM (12 years ago) | Upcoming
democrazy at 29-06-2011 12:11 AM (12 years ago) (m)
@harold634
If you insist please share your information.
@CammyWhite I will agree with your staement as it's quite a general understanding. BUT dont you think something sucks somewhere..........I mean, what is the meaning of faith? The 2 most common definitions are 1. Complete trust or confidence in someone or something. 2. Strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
Now the topic says......"THE EXISTENCE OF THE CHRISTIAN GOD NEEDS NO FURTHER PROOF."
There was no proof in the first place....
Its still a matter of faith.
If you take the 1st definition, you will realise sometimes people get things wrong. Yet we can see clearly the parties involved and can develop real learning from the experience. Like I'll never have faith in you again cos you let me down...........Even a second time of asking, the subject can still fail and the faith entrusted in the subject misplaced. We are all humans and we see and feel these physical experience together. So if we have faith in our leaders and the faith is misplaced. We suffer, learn, and make amends.
With the second more popular definition, we can not learn or make changes especially if you give more thought to the word "apprehension".
You will notice that religion preaches things that it can not proof nor show you. I have harold634 up there trying to make me do something that will proof GOD's existence. None has ever seen GOD, none will see GOD till they die. The only hope given among the millions of fear and purnishment is that of the after life. Which also has to be accepted by faith.
The word faith, then needs to be redifined, in that the 1st definition can change, but the second is forever rigid. So I will say Faith is the ability to blindly belief whatever has been written by man but claimed to be of GOD.
Here again, we have man writing things he can not proof. Yet wants others to believe in it without the chance to change..........i.e, I want all christians who are not fake, but believe that the GOD they serve, and Jesus christ his son, will erradicate cancer before we wake up tomorrow so that we on Naijapals will forever know that he his alive and true and the number of lives saved will forever be greatful cos i will let the world know how it happened.
Posted: at 29-06-2011 12:11 AM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac
democrazy at 29-06-2011 02:52 AM (12 years ago) (m)
You should not blame me for doubting things written by men like the bible as the following will show........
YOU CANNOT SEE GOD Exodus 33:20 There shall no man see me, and live.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time.
John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father.
1 Timothy 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.
1 Timothy 6:16 Whom no man hath seen nor can see.
1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time.
THEY SAW GOD Genesis 12:7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.
Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him....
Genesis 18:1 And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre. Exodus 3:16 The LORD God ... appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you.
Exodus 4:5 That they may believe that the LORD God ... hath appeared unto thee.
Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob.... Isaiah 6:1 In the year that King Ussiah died, I saw, also, the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up.
Isaiah 6:5 For mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.
Both cant be right, or cant they?
Posted: at 29-06-2011 02:52 AM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac
wandepope at 30-06-2011 09:23 AM (12 years ago) (m)
GOD is SPIRIT so HE cant be seen with naked human eyes.Every time the Bible says GOD appeared to Abraham its because Abrahams spiritual eyes where opened.you see if you dont believe by now its because your mind is made up not to believe and nobody can make you believe because you mind is already rejecting the words to make you believe.
Posted: at 30-06-2011 09:23 AM (12 years ago) | Upcoming
wandepope at 30-06-2011 10:26 PM (12 years ago) (m)
Quote from: CammyWhite on 30-06-2011 09:44 AM
Wandepope, so you're saying that you won't get proof until you believe... but if you already believe then you don't need proof.
That's pretty much what I said before.
when you believe whethere or not you want the proof does not matter but a proof must come so that your world can see. hmm...really like what you said but no matter how little your faith it always brings result,the result is the proof not mainly for you but for your world to see .
Posted: at 30-06-2011 10:26 PM (12 years ago) | Upcoming
@ Democracy I do not want to believe that you are actually trying to drag me into explaining why this thread was captioned the way it is.Well,if you must know because I know exactly where you are driving at.It is actually a response to some previous threads that are religiously dedicated and propagated with such vehemence and effrontry challenging the christians to adduce proof of the existence of their God.Need I ask if you now realize the rationale behind the caption of the Thread? I have always said and still will say unequivocally that the christian God exists.Come to think of it,you know as you claim that christians are fakes,fine so why bother yourself about them and their believe and the existence of their God? Whatever the case,the christians are very bold,proud and resolute about their believe whether you agree with or not.What do you think if you contrast the whole scenario;I mean you have not boldly declared your own god that actually exists with proof(s),atleast if you are able to do so,you would have had a moral ground as well push the burden of countering your proof to the christians.Instead,you have chosen to attack others for the simple reason that you need proof about the existence of their God.My brother if you are able to proof that there is another god whose existence kind of diminishes the existence of the christian God ,please do not hesitate to produce your proof(s) before the court of public scrutiny.
Talking about faith,my Bible tells me that cursed is the man that puts his trust in another man (Jeremiah 17:5).When you refer to faith,please do not liken God to men as you comparison of God with politicians in our society cannot hold water.Man is not incapable of failure but only God is true and faithful.You will agree with me that a man is his word and cannot be seperated from it.In that sense,the Bible which is the Word of God contain positions or statements made by God.These statements which were held from time immemoral as the word of God have remained sacrosanct,not changing,nor failing but have continually continued to come to pass (Matthew 24:35).I do not need to chronicle plethora of these words of God that have come to fulfilment just the way it was said by God but suffice it to state briefly some of these words which have turned into remarkable and incontrivertible in man's history and the world.Remember Noah's Ark and the flood how God warned,foretold the flood in Genesis chapters 6 and 7;what about the birth of Jesus Christ,His death and resurrection,there all came to pass as contained in the Bible and concurred by even non christians.Tell me of another man who has been able to rise from death apart from Jesus Christ.Just to mention but a few.
Conccerning Faith,please there is no better definition faith than the one given by the Bible in Hebrews 11'Now faith is the subatance of things hoped for,evidence of things not seen'.Put in another way,faith is the response of the human spirit to the word of God.I know you would ask me and what about that,I mean my repeated reference to the word of God;simple.John 1:1 said"In the begining was the Word,and the Word was with God,and the Word was God.If you look at verses 2 and 3 it say the same was in the begining with God.All things were made by him;and without him was not any thing made that was made.This is a confirmation of my earlier position that a man is his word,so the christian faith is hinged on the Word of God because it is the God manifested in writing.May be John 6:63 would help your understanding"...the word I speak to you is spirit and it is life".Also,the concept of faith is far pass human comprehension as it is to them apprehension like you said but it is so because 1Corinthians 2:5 made it clear thus: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men,but in the power of God.You see,faith is sometthing you do not understand.
Finally about those whom you concieved from the scriptures you quoted to have and/or have not seen God,I refer you to Exodus 6:3 which states as follows: And I appeared unto Abraham,unto Isaac,and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. I know you are smart and would notice from this scripture that none of those you mentioned actually saw God as God manifested Himself by His name God Almighty or I AM to them.In essence,it was through the instrumentality of God's voice as He declared His person to them that is percieved as appearance.I pray God that the word of God will have a free course in your spirit,soul and body as you go through this such that you would come to the true knowledge of God in Christ Jesus,amen.
Posted: at 1-07-2011 03:40 AM (12 years ago) | Upcoming
democrazy at 1-07-2011 05:27 AM (12 years ago) (m)
too many assumptions in your staements, but na your topic....will let you have your fun audience. Just one thing I can answer you.
You said....
"Come to think of it,you know as you claim that christians are fakes,fine so why bother yourself about them and their believe and the existence of their God?"
The wars, ethnic cleansing, and genocide committed by Christians under the umbrella of evangelizing their religion and call to promise land needs to be investigated. They have no right to kill that many people without reasonable proof of who sent them.
If they Muslims start rioting and killing christians in Northern Nigeria do you not ask the government to intervene and stop them. Do you not question what their belief is about...............This is same reasoning why I loathe the christian religion and movement. Especially it's introduction to Africa, America and Australia.......
Posted: at 1-07-2011 05:27 AM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac
@Democray "The wars,ethnic cleansing and genocide committed by christians...If you are sincere to yourself,you would know that the Israelites in their march to the promised land did not start the wars or killings but only fought in self defence.Or are you saying that they do not have the right to self defence? If this is the case,the riots and killings by the muslims in northern Nigeria cannot be placed on the same plank with the wars fought by Israelites.The muslims killings and riots are usually unprovoked but erroneous believe or claim that those who are non muslims are infidels and should be killed,while seeing themselves as fighting a holy war.Certainly,these are different scenarios.i do not want to join issues with another religion but a reply to your submission.
Posted: at 1-07-2011 07:21 AM (12 years ago) | Upcoming
CammyWhite at 1-07-2011 01:04 PM (12 years ago) (f)
Quote from: hosbert on 1-07-2011 07:21 AM
@Democray "The wars,ethnic cleansing and genocide committed by christians...If you are sincere to yourself,you would know that the Israelites in their march to the promised land did not start the wars or killings but only fought in self defence.Or are you saying that they do not have the right to self defence?
The people who lived in the Promised Land saw the land as theirs and weren't going to just surrender to the Israelites. The Israelites were killing in self-defence much as the Germans entering Russia, and the Serbs in Bosnia, and the Hutus in Rwanda.
Posted: at 1-07-2011 01:04 PM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac
@Democray "The wars,ethnic cleansing and genocide committed by christians...If you are sincere to yourself,you would know that the Israelites in their march to the promised land did not start the wars or killings but only fought in self defence.Or are you saying that they do not have the right to self defence?
The people who lived in the Promised Land saw the land as theirs and weren't going to just surrender to the Israelites. The Israelites were killing in self-defence much as the Germans entering Russia, and the Serbs in Bosnia, and the Hutus in Rwanda.
...there is something yous don't get...it doesn't matter if you don't get it...at this stage... ...when a program thats is written for a particular purpose...decides to do what it's not written for...it will be deleted... ...whether anyone like it or not... ...as it was said in the Holy Book... ..."Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men"....Mathew 5:13
Posted: at 1-07-2011 05:03 PM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac
CammyWhite at 2-07-2011 02:59 AM (12 years ago) (f)
Quote from: chik001 on 1-07-2011 05:03 PM
Quote from: CammyWhite on 1-07-2011 01:04 PM
Quote from: hosbert on 1-07-2011 07:21 AM
@Democray "The wars,ethnic cleansing and genocide committed by christians...If you are sincere to yourself,you would know that the Israelites in their march to the promised land did not start the wars or killings but only fought in self defence.Or are you saying that they do not have the right to self defence?
The people who lived in the Promised Land saw the land as theirs and weren't going to just surrender to the Israelites. The Israelites were killing in self-defence much as the Germans entering Russia, and the Serbs in Bosnia, and the Hutus in Rwanda.
...there is something yous don't get...it doesn't matter if you don't get it...at this stage... ...when a program thats is written for a particular purpose...decides to do what it's not written for...it will be deleted... ...whether anyone like it or not... ...as it was said in the Holy Book... ..."Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men"....Mathew 5:13
So in your view Yahweh put people in the so-called Promised Land so that the Israelites could kill them to get that Promised Land.
That is so dumb.
Posted: at 2-07-2011 02:59 AM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac
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