O worshippers of the Messiah (Page 3)

PRAISE THE LORD ALL YE HIS SAINTS. HE IS WORTHY TO BE PRAISED. THIS JESUS WHO WAS IN THE BEGINNING , IS NOW AND SHALL EVER MORE BE. HALLELUYAH. HE IS THE ONE THAT MEN TALK ABOUT TO EVERYWHERE. HE IS THE REASON FOR THE SEASON. HE IS SO AWESOME, SO WONDERFUL (FULL OF WONDER) THERE IS NO SEASON SO INFECTIOUS LIKE CHRISTMAS AND EASTER SEASONS (THERE HAS NEVER BEEN AND THERE CAN NEVER BE) THERE IS SO DAY SO FULL OF GLORY LIKE SUNDAY. EVEN OTHER RELIGIONS ARE SUBJECT TO THE DIVINITY OF THAT DAY. WHAT MORE CAN I SAY, ONLY THE ANTICHRISTS DOUBT OR OPPOSE THE EXISTENCE AND SUPREMACY AND DIVINITY OF THIS OUR JESUS.

Posted: at 26-03-2009 07:10 PM (15 years ago) | Upcoming

Intresting questions you pose.

There is something you need to understand however.

1) The Messiah is not the creator of the heavens and the earth: the word 'messiah' means 'annointed one of Yahweh.

Definitely there must be someone annointing another for the ceremony to take place abi?


Then Yohanan/John gave this testimony: "I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to immerse/baptize with water told me, 'The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will immerse/baptize with the Set Apart Spirit.' I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of the Mighty One."

Yohanan/John 1: 32-34.


As soon as Yahoshua was immerses/baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of the Mighty One descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."
Mati/Matthew 3: 16-17.

As may be seen from the above passages there are two individuals involved.

The above should settle your curiousity as to which died and which of these noble, estimable, worthy personalities could be killed or handed over to human power. Definitly not the Father but the son (to put a quick spin on the answer).

Enjoy your studies.

Posted: at 6-04-2009 11:22 AM (15 years ago) | Newbie

Dear Slim. Whenever u r referin to the God above plz in due respect...gurl...always capitalize it by showin some good manners.

Posted: at 7-04-2009 05:46 AM (15 years ago) | Hero

It is a personal thing.....

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Posted: at 15-04-2009 01:16 PM (15 years ago) | Addicted Hero

your question is stupid not his, please talk sense and stop deceiving yourself before it's too late

Posted: at 27-04-2009 07:35 AM (14 years ago) | Gistmaniac

Praise be to Allaah.

·                 Maryam the daughter of ‘Imraan was a pious and righteous woman… She strove hard in worship until she had no peer in matters of worship… The angels gave her the glad tidings that Allaah had chosen her:

“And (remember) when the angels said: ‘O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allaah has chosen you, purified you (from polytheism and disbelief), and chosen you above the women of the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn) (of her lifetime).’

O Maryam! ‘Submit yourself with obedience to your Lord (Allaah, by worshipping none but Him Alone) and prostrate yourself, and bow down along with Ar-Raaki‘oon (those who bow down)’”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:42-43]

·                 Then the angels gave Maryam the glad tidings that Allaah would bestow upon her a child, whom He would create with the word “Be! And it is.” This child’s name was the Messiah ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (Jesus son of Mary)… He would be held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter, and he would be a Messenger to the Children of Israel… He would teach the Book and wisdom, and the Tawraat (Torah) and Injeel (Gospel) … And he would have attributes and miracles that no one else would have, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“(Remember) when the angels said: ‘O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allaah gives you the glad tidings of a Word [“Be!” — and he was! i.e. ‘Eesa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary)] from Him, his name will be the Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allaah.

He will speak to the people, in the cradle and in manhood, and he will be one of the righteous.’

She said: ‘O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me.’ He said: ‘So (it will be) for Allaah creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: “Be!” and it is’” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:45-47]

·                 Then Allaah tells us the rest of the glad tidings of the angels to Maryam of her son ‘Eesa (peace be upon him), and of the honour of ‘Eesa, and how He would support him with miracles:

“And He (Allaah) will teach him [‘Eesa (Jesus)] the Book and Al-Hikmah (i.e. the Sunnah, the faultless speech of the Prophets, wisdom), (and) the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel).

And will make him [‘Eesa (Jesus)] a Messenger to the Children of Israel (saying): ‘I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, a figure like that of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allaah’s Leave; and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to life by Allaah’s Leave. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, therein is a sign for you, if you believe.

And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Tawraat (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allaah and obey me.

Truly, Allaah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him (Alone). This is the Straight PathMaryam 19:27-29]

·                 ‘Eesa replied to them straight away, even though he was a child in the cradle:

“He [‘Eesa (Jesus)] said: ‘Verily, I am a slave of Allaah, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet;

And He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and has enjoined on me Salaah (prayer), and Zakaah, as long as I live.

And dutiful to my mother, and made me not arrogant, unblest.

And Salaam (peace) be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!‘Eesa (Jesus)] the Book and Al-Hikmah (i.e. the Sunnah, the faultless speech of the Prophets, wisdom), (and) the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel).

And will make him [‘Eesa (Jesus)] a Messenger to the Children of Israelal-Saff 61:6]

·                 ‘Eesa (peace be upon him) called the Children of Israel to worship Allaah alone, and to obey the rulings of the Tawraat and Injeel… He started to dispute with them and to explain the error of their ways. When he saw how stubborn they were and how the signs of kufr were manifest among them, he stood among his people, saying, Who will be my helpers in the cause of Allaah? The disciples believed in him, and their number was twelve. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Then when ‘Eesa (Jesus) came to know of their disbelief, he said: ‘Who will be my helpers in Allaah’s Cause?’ Al-Hawaariyyoon (the disciples) said: ‘We are the helpers of Allaah; we believe in Allaah, and bear witness that we are Muslims (i.e. we submit to Allaah).’

Our Lord! We believe in what You have sent down, and we follow the Messenger [‘Eesa (Jesus)]; so write us down among those who bear witness (to the truth, i.e. Laa ilaaha illallaah — none has the right to be worshipped but Allaah)al-Nisaa’ 4:157-158]

 ·                 So Eesa (peace be upon him) did not die, rather Allaah raised him up to Himself, and he will descend before the Day of Resurrection and will follow Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He will prove the Jews to be wrong in their claim to have killed ‘Eesa and crucified him. And he will prove the Christians to be wrong who exaggerated about him and said that he was God, or the son of God, or the third of three. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “By the One in Whose hand is my soul, the son of Maryam will descend among you as a just judge. He will break the cross, kill the pigs and abolish the jizyah, and money will become so widespread that there will be no one who will accept it.” (Agreed upon; narrated by Muslim, no. 155).

·                 When ‘Eesa comes down before the Day of Resurrection, the People of the Book will believe in him, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And there is none of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) but must believe in him [‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), as only a Messenger of Allaah and a human being] before his [‘Eesa (Jesus) or a Jew’s or a Christian’s] death (at the time of the appearance of the angel of death). And on the Day of Resurrection, he [‘Eesa (Jesus)] will be a witness against them”

[al-Nisaa’ 4:159]

·                 ‘Eesa ibn Maryam is the slave of Allaah and His Messenger. Allaah sent him to guide the Children of Israel and to call them to worship Allaah alone, as Allaah says to the Jews and Christians (interpretation of the meaning):

“O people of the Scripture (Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allaah aught but the truth. The Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allaah and His Word, (‘Be!’ — and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rooh) created by Him; so believe in Allaah and His Messengers. Say not: ‘Three (trinity)!’ Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allaah is (the only) One Ilaah (God), glory is to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allaah is All Sufficient as a Disposer of affairsMaryam 19:88-93]

·                 ‘Eesa ibn Maryam is a human being, a slave of Allaah and His Messenger. Whoever believes that the Messiah son of Maryam is God is a disbeliever (kaafir).

“Surely, they have disbelieved who say: Allaah is the Messiah [‘Eesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary)al-Baqarah 2:79]

·                 Allaah has taken from the Christians the pledge that they will follow ‘Eesa and follow that which he brought, but they changed and distorted that; they differed then they turned away. So Allaah will punish them with enmity and hatred in this world, and with torment in the Hereafter, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And from those who call themselves Christians, We took their covenant, but they have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them. So We planted amongst them enmity and hatred till the Day of Resurrection (when they discarded Allaah’s Book, disobeyed Allaah’s Messengers and His Orders and transgressed beyond bounds in Allaah’s disobedience); and Allaah will inform them of what they used to do

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Posted: at 7-05-2009 05:26 PM (14 years ago) | Upcoming

Lady, I think u need to read it again and again and reflect on it with sincerity. Try not to read it with a bias mind. The Qur'an and the Bible are both the Book of Almighty God, i dont think there is a need for pple to throw insults at one another.

Allaah(God) has said in the Qur'an that "there is no compulsion in religion, those who like let them believe, those who like let them disbelieve for surely the disbelievers will be punished.

I sincerely hate these arguments but i wanted u mostly christians to know that we muslims dont hate Christ we adore him and praise him as u do but WE WILL NEVER WORSHIP HIM for according to our believe God has not a father,mother,son, daughter. He is above all that people attribute to him.  THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE....

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Posted: at 8-05-2009 10:48 AM (14 years ago) | Upcoming

Thank u lady, i admire ur courage and ur desire to know more and being tolerant. I do have the intention to write more, i will try n see what i can post henceforth in order not to spring up violence....

Am sorry if i made some conclusions.... God bless u

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Posted: at 11-05-2009 01:16 PM (14 years ago) | Upcoming

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Wuss good everybody?It's been a while that i popped into this forum last.I've been tied up lately wit' jobs.In anycase, nobody camehere to create confusion, rather it was to shar something that perplexedme and tryna see if anybody could hekp out.All in all, i should say it's been mixed feelings.. some reasonable opposing comments and some obviously dogmatic opposing ones.Also some interesting supporters- from both sides of the divide.As for the ramblings ofsome, like 'Pac said :Y'all niggaz expect Jesus to come back,expect me to come back! .

Posted: at 29-05-2009 11:41 AM (14 years ago) | Newbie

This may be too lengthy, but take the pain and read thru.There is something for you.

In responding to accusations, counter accusations, suggestions, condemnations and commendations, I will start by stating an obvious fact that a lot of us have been largely ignorant of or at least pretend to be unaware of. This is put in the words of Professor James Harvey Robinson inn 'The Mind in the making': "We like to continue to believe what we have been accustomed to accept true, and resentment aroused when doubt is cast upon any of our assumptions leads us to seek every manner of excuse for clinging to it. The result is that most of our so-called reasoning consists in finding arguments for going on believing as we already do.

I read some  of the responses on this issue with consternation. A striking example:"Godson: OH!My people suffer for lack of WISDOM.Ur questions,with all due respect,are products of stark ignorance in spiritual things.Now,let's get to the basics.

The Jesus that lived for 33 years & the one that rose from the dead are two different people.(I know U wont understand this)It was part of a divine plan that "The Son of Man"would come and die for the sake of mankind.As far back as in the Book of Isaiah,it was prophesied that "he would be bruised for our sake & by His stripes,we are healed.
King David,in the Psalms talked about him,when he said,the Lord God would not let His body to be eaten by insects and other things of the grave.

Now for ur question about if their was a vacuum when He died,read 1John 5:7.It would tell U that there are three that bears witness in the Heaven,the Father,the Word & the Holy spirit.And if U dont understand what that verse meant by the WORD,go to John 1:1-10.There U'll see that "in the beginning was the WORD,& and the Word was with God,& the word was God.And the Word took flesh to dwell amongst men"

God is a spirit & those who wants to know him must do so in spirit.Do not be deceived by the philosophies of mere mortals.Luckily,I am a Philosopher.Thus,I can draw the line between philosophy of men and the Knowledge of God,which is the supreme vision of existence.

MAN KNOW THY SELF. "

The saddest part of this submission  is declaring that he is a philosopher. First question Mr Aristotle Plato, what makes you a philosopher? Is it a BSc in Philosophy from Unilag or OAU? Whose student or disciple are you? If at all you are conversant with Philosophy, you would have read that infamous yet popular article, Why I am not a Christian. If at all you've done, I put a challenge to you to respond to those questions. In any case, I don't believe in what Russell says, I already debunked his claims. Mind you, I teach first year University Philosophy.
Now to your statements. You said “The Jesus that lived for 33 years & the one that rose from the dead are two different people.(I know U wont understand this)".Yes I  don't just as you too don’t. And how would you when the proud writer of the doctrine of the trinity himself does not understand the trinity. I wish to remind you that the triad concept imported from ancient mythology that was formally ratified and drawn into Christianity happened in Nicaea in AD 325.Did Jesus live till then? Do his disciples not know more than Constantine whom all he wanted was an amalgamation of Roman and Christian thoughts?
God, the Ever Knowing knew all will eventually happen and He gave us intellect to decipher things. Now, I know you will play down human intelligence once more and that has been the major bane of Christianity. Why shouldn't I question a doctrine that is obviously at crossroads with simple reasoning? How will God exist in three different states and we still say He and not They? God and not Gods? Take it or leave it, if this is Christianity, then the Mormon Church that does not shy away from the fact that the trinity is polytheistic is right!
Mr Ole was an hardened criminal, he maimed and killed at will. He raped and stole with impunity. Unfortunately, he was never captured all through his reign as he was a moving charms factory. He couldn't also be touched ‘cuz of the weapon he clutched. He died peacefully in his bedroom in his country home mansion one night and was buried with pomp and pageantry. The Police thus got to know about his demise. They moved armoured vehicles and  tanks into the country side and started shooting and shelling. They captured Mr OmoOle the only son of Mr Ole and took him to the Divisional Police HQ. After a trial at the local high court, he was sentenced to death by hanging. Even his explanations that he always tried to report but whenever he opens his mouth, nothing comes out fell on the deaf ears of the great judge of the land. Right at the Village square, he was hung with a noose and beneath him was a blazing fire that sparsely touches his naked GUILTY skin. Of course guilty, why did he choose to be the child of a robber? Why did his mother not run away from Mr Ole's house? In a landmark judgement that will shape later judicial rulings, OmoOle was rightly executed to cleanse the land and appease its citizens. IN YOUR OWN CONSCIENCE TOO, HOW DOES THAT SOUND? I LEAVE YOU TO JUDGE.
This also serves as a response to the words of hiddenpearl: "He certainly could have saved Himself on the cross (like the topic starter suggested), but the fact that He didn't is proof enough of His love for each and everyone of us. Jesus died knowing that centuries later, some of us would throw that love in His face and reject it."
I tell you that God has a way of doing His things. One proof for the roundness of the earth, something the church fought for centuries, is that all other planetary bodies are round. So why did the way of God change with Jesus? When did God ever manifest in human form as Abraham or Moses or Jacob? When the biggest tyrant the world will ever see, Pharaoh was at the height of his madness against the children of Israel, God didn’t come down before he destroyed him. Same for the people of Noah and Lot. Why did God have to be nailed to a wooden cross? To save humanity? Then Bertrand Russell wins, and we that believe in God lose. He didn't have to die to show us his love, he didn't have to be humiliated, and he didn't have to bleed. One of the greatest insult Christians heaped on this noble man Jesus is that he said the words: Oh God! Oh God! Why hast thou forsaken me? Which God? The father? Why not the holy spirit? why not the "dying" son?

To the words of the one who showed an abject poverty of mannerism, belhushe. You wrote "please if u wanna raise such baseless and stupid issues like d ones u've outlined...try and let's know ur belief...it gives every1 insight on where u r coming from..then it will b easy to contain ur mundanity ".Well, a wise man told me: "Don't argue with fools, for people from a distance won't be able to tell who is who." Did u call those baseless? Then respond to a single line of ur choice and I'll be sure I've been stupid. Otherwise,...
I don’t have to grab a copy of the bible anymore, I already did that way back. Going back to it will be like the proverbial dog going back to its vomit. In any case, I'm now a Muslim, that I had always been before I lost my way, sometimes back.

mimizamfe:pls what r u today??? ::)mind u...aljazeerah and arabiyyah r Islamic focused media houses....u havent been to an Islamic country from what i understand.

Yes, I haven't been to an Islamic country, have you? But how does that mix in? I mean... I said BBC and CNN reported it, not al Jazeerah and al Arabiyyah. That's all, in lay man Primary school explanation.O ga!

DO WE NED TO FIGHT FOR GOD??...HE IS D OMINI PRESENCE....WHY IS LEAVING ISLAM PUNISHABLE BY DEATH.....?IF U CAN ANSWER THIS QUESTION, ONLY THEN WILL I START REASONING UR WAY

You don't have to reason my way. That's why we've got intellect. Just as we don't have to reason the way we've been brought up to, you have to liberate your mind and think.

Why is apostasy punishable by death in Islam?
The same reason why it is punishable by death in Christianity and every other faith. Come, do you know what broke Christianity into Catholicism and Protestantism? Do you know how many catholic lives were taken in England and how many Protestants were killed in Rome? Do you know how many scientists and philosophers that were burnt at the stakes for committing heresy against the church? One now wonders what is called heresy. A view, usually from deep research or methodological thinking, which stands against established norms of the church. Let’s not mention the Crusades pls.

If the punishment for murder and espionage (also known as high treason) is death, then what should be the punishment for the one who disbelieves in the Lord of mankind and despises and rejects His religion? Is espionage or shedding blood worse than leaving the religion of the Lord of mankind and rejecting it?
U didn't need to ask me what I am today. U knew already. That's why u asked me this question about apostasy in Islam. That's too simple a debate mistake, that's too costly uhn!

Bigbaby ,well i don't need a bible from u.I always had and u don't have to tell me a lot of it still flies around online. I received one from the USA some months back.If this is ignorance, may God never forgive me.

aduramidayo, the prayer shouldn't be for salvation of our lost souls, rather it should be for divine guidance for yourself first and then others.Oh Allaah, (or God) let us see good as good and enable us to follow it.Let's see evil as evil and enable us to abstain from it.

" helives4ever:Obviously, you're not a Christian, so you're incapable of understanding the Mysteries that are hidden Christ Jesus. In other words, your eyes are blinded from the truth. Unless God unveils your eyes, and shines the truth of His revelation in your heart, you are without hope."
HAHA.Ki lo de?On top wetin?Guy I no like am,haha.I photocopy u.
My not being a christian is not  the issue. once was in any case.Mysteries are not meant to exist in the religion meant for everyone.The fact that I can't comprehend it makes me unanswerable for not believing it.Do u agree?God is absolutely one.No mysteries,no initiation ceremonies, no baptism.Everyone knows that and that's my major draw to Islam.Now, if it's mysterious to a disbelieving mind like me, then it is to a blind follower like u to cuz even the author of the trinity didn't understand it.
God killed his son to satisfy his wrath?LOL,LMFAO.Kai,why u so dumb hommie?Now back to our story.Mr Ole, even though he was a criminal in Jaguda state, he was a generous and humble philanthropist in Jeje state,his state of indigene.At a time,his earnings were dwindling and the jejeans were suffering from drought.To bulk up his welfare packages to Jejeans, he killed Olediran, his only daughter and used her charred remains to make a more powerful charm that gave him the power to diappear and appear at will.With this, he was able to get more criminal money and thus made more Jejeans smile.He satisfied his wrath,his inner displaeasure of not making people as happy as he would have loved.JUDGE THAT!
Is the pseudo philosopher there?I don't know the philosopher who boasted to the world that "  I AM A PHILOSOPHER".Back to what i was saying, what you just said about God is the view of Jeremy Bentham, Utilitarianism i.e make more people happy at the expense of less people.On the surface,it looks nice and sweetly humane but the problem sets in when an helives4ever's theory of satisfying wrath situation occurs.Let me break it down.2 people have to go for a a life saving operation in India or Saudi Arabia.(Don't they have better health care that we do).It costs 5 million naira.Olowo has the money to give out but not anything more than that.A debacle sets in:one of the 2 is his mother.Ordinarily, he should give it to his mother but if his mother dies, he will be the only one to mourn since he is an only child and is single.The other patient, a man has a lot of dependants spanning generations and he is also a local headmaster of the Community Primary School.He has brought a lot of reforms into the primary education of the community.Basically, he is indispensable.The principle of Utilitarianism dictates that the money goes to the headmaster.How reasonable is that?In the words of Memphis Bleek: "Watchu think of that?"
You inadvertently shot yourself in the foot by saying " All your questions can be answered, but I haven't the time right now. If you wish to contact me for further discussion about it, please do so. What I tell you is the TRUTH. Accept it if you may, or you can deny it. It still remains the truth."
Haba! Since  December 29, 2008, 09:29:24 PM,so you haven't had the time since.OLODO!Guy, do quick I dey wait 4 ur response jo! Why will i contact you?On what?For what?I beg,LMFAO,I go die o.Simple one line response u no fit since December u com dey hala say make i contact u!A beg go rest jo.
 "What I tell you is the TRUTH. Accept it if you may, or you can deny it. It still remains the truth."Exactly what is called dogmatism.For emphasis,, say Stereotyped dogmatism.


KG4Laif:PRAISE THE LORD ALL YE HIS SAINTS. HE IS WORTHY TO BE PRAISED. THIS JESUS WHO WAS IN THE BEGINNING , IS NOW AND SHALL EVER MORE BE.
This words of KG4laif is in direct contrast with the jumbles of Mr Philosopher Godson.For real, u should be a Chemist instead of a philosopher.Why?U reduced Jesus (PBUH) into an allotrope.Allotropy is the existence of a chemical element in two different physical forms but having the same chemical properties.Diamond and graphite are allotropes of Carbon.
Another way out for you is to clothe him in a garb of the philosophical concept of emergent property.Guy,No way out.It's all confusing.

Yeah,Ajepakoromance.Such a funny name.I disagree that religion and hypocritism are brother and sister.Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the masses.Yeah, it;s true.But what he saw was Christianity.Marx was a Jewish German and Germany has the unfortunate fate of being the only place in the world with an equal split of the population into Catholics and protestants.So all he witnessed as religion was the acrimony of the two branches of Christianity.
I may not sound overall convincing,but I'm sure of something - I freed myself of stereotypes and challenge you to do the same.Start investigating religions.

Posted: at 2-06-2009 07:50 AM (14 years ago) | Newbie