very good mr democrazy i love rational explanation.but,
there are some proof we can only know but will never see it.a very good example is mystic powers,one of such possessed by animist worshippers.their demonic powers can be used to advocate evil and other causes based on preference.what is the rational explanation behind these mystic powers?or can we see them?or should we depend on logic that they don't exist and is a mere hoax?did i just say hoax?
if the adherents of the christian faith decides to engage in a spiritual fighting incantation with these animist worshippers,the christians always have a stronghold way above that of the animist worshippers.what is the rational explanation behind the force/power that gave the christians a stronghold then?....who/what is said to possess such powers? | Posted: at 21-09-2011 11:56 PM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac | |
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![-]( "democrazy") democrazy at 22-09-2011 03:26 AM (12 years ago)  (m) @williams, OK lets see if we can have a fruitful discussion even if we may end up not agreeing, but there is always that chance that truth will always be known and never changes. I will start by taking a piece of information from a very christian mind, I hope she is not cross with me referring to her this way as I see she writes very well in support of christianity and her points, though deliciously looking, if checked with opened mind and facts will point out to tell a different story. Dis-belief of the true fact, can only be justified by faith. Her quote in a reply............................. @PreciousA
My dear you are very welcome.
Personally, I don’t believe the subject matter is contentious because every society or culture comes this way. There are many acts done earlier out of ignorance, survival, etc. And, as time goes on, a better, supposedly more acceptable/proper way is learned and put in place.
Yes, today even one time bad act, one can be prosecuted. In our time, if Abraham’s wife or even the Pharaoh wanted to press charges against Abraham they would have a case. And, I believe this is your point. But, during Abraham’s time, the laws and customs were very different. I am sure many of the Jewish laws and customs today are very different from Abraham’s time. We agree, the act is not an acceptable one. God did not tell Abraham to lie and let his wife go with another man, God did not condone it, nor was it excused. All bad acts have negative consequences…same in Lot’s case, which is why God cautions us not to do them in the first place. One example that comes to mind, is one of a person who drinks and drive. It’s a bad decision. A person does it anyways, and runs over an innocent person, and that person dies. The one who drove drunk might ask for forgiveness. And, if they are one of God’s people, they will be forgiven. (I might add that it’s worse for this one who is not with God because, the devil will use this opportunity to destroy the person who drove drunk, and as many others as possible…with just this one act.) But, the effect and consequences still remain. A person is dead, and is no longer with their family. The person who drove drunk might develop mental issues because they can’t get over what they did. If they have family, their family members will suffer for it, as people in the community will say and do many things. This is what I mean, when I say effects. Everything we do and don’t do and visa versa, has an effect. The effect can be good or it can be bad. When it is sin, it is always a bad effect.
Yes, I agree 100% our society has moved on from accepting such behavior as normal…though it happening countless times without number. I too, wouldn’t say it was normal acceptable behavior back then in Abraham’s time either, otherwise Abraham would have just said Sarah was his wife and allowed Pharaoh to take her. And, the Pharaoh would have took her anyway knowing it was Abraham‘s wife.
It true, the mores and customs of those peoples we do not live by but there are applications that remain the same, even today that we have different mores and customs.
What would happen today if a father did as Lot?
Definitely, today Lot would be charged with child abuse and lose custody of his daughters, if they were under age (US Laws). Not God, nor did I ever say Lot’s behavior was an acceptable one. From the beginning, I’ve shared it was a bad decision Lot made and probably done out of panic. It is just what happened in his case and the laws of today did not exist in his time.
Why should we even bother to learn about OT morality?
There are morality lessons in the OT as well, but the story of Lot is not speaking on a morality point. It’s an account of what one man did when told that the city he was living in was going to be destroyed. It was being destroyed because of all the sin that was taking place in it. One thing is does show is that a city can bring about it’s own destruction through the acts of sin allowed to be committed or allowed to take place as normal. This is very applicable to our time today. And, there are so many other accounts that apply to us in our time.
The OT is still an important part of the Bible. The OT and NT compliment each other. The OT teaches us about human nature, God’s nature, history, prophesy, and so much more. It applies to us in our time and is relevant for everyday life. We may drive cars instead of chariots, and take airplanes instead of walking from city to city…and all the other differences along those lines, but it is the principles of many OT accounts that are timeless.
I share that we are not in an OT covenant with God, we are in a NT covenant with God. Under the NT covenant, there is not immediate judgment (plus), but grace through Jesus Christ. But, it doesn’t mean that the Law or 10 Commandments are not important, they are still important.
The 10 Commandments (Deut. 5:6-22)
6I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 7Thou shalt have none other gods before me. 8Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
9Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
10And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
11Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
12Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
13Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
14But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
15And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
16Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
17Thou shalt not kill.
18Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
19Neither shalt thou steal.
20Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
21Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.
22These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.
Thanks, I’m learning from you too.
All glory to God
----------------------------------------------------------------- Now, I dont want to stree too much, but my topic here says "CChristianity is fake" and I will continue to prove it. See, she wants us to believe that the GOD of the old testament has changed and no longer does those pre-meditated murders, Like ordering Saul to Kill all the people of Amalek including infants and sucklings. the 52000 people he killed just because they opened an ark after it had been brought back. The genecide of the canaanites, the phillistines, etc. So how has the new GOD changed? remember I am not fooled, that a GOD will change his morality from killing or flooding humans to becoming very loving and forgiving. Even though the preaching is that GOD is all loving. I think my mother and father are more loving and more forgiving than the bible GOD. Looking at the new testament I see in Acts 5:1 - 10 Ananias killed for lying to the Holy Spirit. Acts 12: 23 Herod killed for not giving glory to GOD. Rev 6:1 - 7 God unleashes four beast to kill as many humans as possible. Rev 8:7 - 11 God destroys a third of the sea creatures and trees. Including humans and their ships. I can go on. BUT what am getting at is that the Europeans could colonize Africa and the rest of the world via christianity cos the christian GOD is a GOD OF WAR not LOVE. This is not the African GOD nor the creator of humans. I have tried to show that the Christinity is a religion of a supposed race called the jews who have no root in history. They have somehow created a race called the Isrealites and written them into Egyptian history by trying to re-write egyptian history. Shall we go along the line to prove that the biblical account of history or creation is wrong OR Do we venture into showing that the teachings of christianity is there to kill the human soul and trap their spirit in bondage of fear. | Posted: at 22-09-2011 03:26 AM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac | |
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![-]( "democrazy") democrazy at 22-09-2011 04:25 AM (12 years ago) (m) very good mr democrazy i love rational explanation.but,
there are some proof we can only know but will never see it.a very good example is mystic powers,one of such possessed by animist worshippers.their demonic powers can be used to advocate evil and other causes based on preference.what is the rational explanation behind these mystic powers?or can we see them?or should we depend on logic that they don't exist and is a mere hoax?did i just say hoax?
if the adherents of the christian faith decides to engage in a spiritual fighting incantation with these animist worshippers,the christians always have a stronghold way above that of the animist worshippers.what is the rational explanation behind the force/power that gave the christians a stronghold then?....who/what is said to possess such powers?
@Williams, Mystic power is only called mystic because we dont understand it. Humans generally have a lot of different powers available to them, both physically and supernaturally. If you develop your physical bother, you can get it to perform actions that are deemed beyond the human body functionality. Same way if you know how to manipulate the waves that makes you see or hear then we are getting somewhere. All these can be learned and are not a gift to only a certain individual. The way we use these powers determine either good or evil. Religion or GOD/ALLAH has no say in this human endeavours. If we use it to expalin the not known, then when we come into the knowing, we should make amends and let the truth filter through. | Posted: at 22-09-2011 04:25 AM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac | |
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![-]( "democrazy") democrazy at 22-09-2011 04:59 AM (12 years ago) (m) @mchinwendu I copied your statement along with the 10 commandments hoping to show you how fake all these christian thing is!! The 10 commandment was given by GOD to Moses on a slab of stones. Moses got the ten commandment after he left egypt. In short a summary of Moses is as follows; Moses was born in a time when his people, the Children of Israel, were increasing in number and the Egyptian Pharaoh was worried that they might help Egypt's enemies. Moses' Hebrew mother, Jochebed, hides him when the Pharaoh ordered all newborn Hebrew boys to be killed, and the child is adopted as a foundling by the Egyptian royal family. After killing an Egyptian slave-master, Moses flees across the Red Sea to Midian where he has his encounter with the God of Israel in the form of the "burning bush". God sends Moses to request the release of the Israelites. After the Ten Plagues, Moses leads the Exodus of the Israelites out of Egypt and across the Red Sea, after which they base themselves at Mount Sinai, where Moses receives the Ten Commandments. After 40 years of wandering in the desert, Moses dies aged 120, within sight of the Promised Land.Moses lived between 1391–1271 BCE. What will it be worth to show that the Babylonian "Code of Hammurabi" shares the same imagery as Moses being given the ten commandments and predates Moses's story by 400 years. The code of Hammurabi is dated to 1700 BCE. Also note, no account of Moses existence has ever been found outside the bible. I will have had more to go on with if the bible had felt so confident to mention the name of the supposed Egyptian Pharoah at that time. | Posted: at 22-09-2011 04:59 AM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac | |
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![-]( "CammyWhite") CammyWhite at 22-09-2011 10:31 AM (12 years ago) (f) not quite,i should be the one to tell you maybe you are afraid of pasting me the fact and your source(s).cause i have good sources dating back to 2005 till 2011 giving me intel of the shroud been authentic.now you were the one who said is a fake.paste me your proof/source and not telling me to do research....
if you have the proof of it,display it and defend your claim.. Actually, since you mentioned the Shroud first, the burden of proof is on you. the burden of proof is on me?.. really?....how hilarious. if you are satisfied that your claim is right,then stick to your guns.... I'm serious. You made a claim, you back it up. | Posted: at 22-09-2011 10:31 AM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac | |
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![-]( "mchinwendu") mchinwendu at 22-09-2011 07:58 PM (12 years ago) (f) @democrazy
Not at all…I’m not cross with you at, feel free.
Christianity is not fake, nor have you proven it to be so.
It’s not God that has changed but the covenant. It is mankind that murders. All those instances were you accuse God of pre-meditated murder, it’s not like that at all. I recall a few of the accounts off hand but not all that you listed. But just the same…I too trust God, and there is more to the accounts than can be seen, recorded and/or understood.
Sin must be judged. Let’s equate it to someone committing a crime. The criminal act is done, nothing can ever take it back. The way that’s available to man is to charge the person to court and let other men investigate, collect evidence, etc. and then give whether the person is guilty or not. With our way many times, innocent people are judged and the guilty get away. After court, the judge orders the judgment and it is measured against crime committed. With God, he sees all! The person can’t lie or slip through a court system or get away with committing the crime because God saw the thoughts, knows what it said to the heart, and witnesses the act carried out. God is love definitely he is, but he is also a God of justice. Since he loves us, how can he not be about justice? And, truly there can be no justice without judgment.
Do you know the effect of innocent blood shed? The effect of innocent blood being spilled in a land…we can not even imagine all that is involved. I recall when the first murder took place, God said to Cain, ‘the voice of your brother’s blood cry unto me from the ground.’ (Gen.4:10-11). We are not God and we just do not see or know all the wicked things that people do, believing that if no one on earth sees it they are safe. Sin doesn’t die. The sin has to be paid for…and that is love and that is justice. God does carry out judgments.
Some of the Europeans did use Christianity as a smoke screen “so to speak”. Even Hitler professed to be a Christian. The fake always copies the real, but it is still a fake. Nor does it take anything away from true Christianity.
Christianity is not a religion. Jesus opposed the Jewish religious leaders and their religion while he walked the earth for so many reasons, but one is because of the burden religion places on people.
The Biblical account of history and creation is not wrong…it is man that does not have all the information.
The teaching of Christianity is not there to kill the human soul…as the soul does not die. Nor does it trap the spirit in bondage of fear. Christianity is freedom in so many ways, not bondage.
You said,
“Christinity is a religion of a supposed race called the jews who have no root in history. They have somehow created a race called the Isrealites and written them into Egyptian history by trying to re-write egyptian history.”
Please, how did they do this with the world watching? | Posted: at 22-09-2011 07:58 PM (12 years ago) | Upcoming | |
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![-]( "mchinwendu") mchinwendu at 22-09-2011 08:11 PM (12 years ago) (f) @democrazy
Christianity is very real.
But, how the 10 Commandments were given, some events in Moses’ life and no mention of Moses outside of the Bible still doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, nor does it prove your statement.
Is everything on the secular/world side recorded? Is everything, every event, every war, every person, every civilization, etc. known to us?
Though, I am curious about what you shared regarding the Code of Hammurabi. I also wonder if there is anything known contrary to it. | Posted: at 22-09-2011 08:11 PM (12 years ago) | Upcoming | |
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![-]( "democrazy") democrazy at 23-09-2011 03:39 AM (12 years ago) (m) @mchinwendu....let me try answer with this format....... Christianity is not fake, nor have you proven it to be so. ------------------------------------------------------------- How much proof will I need to present? Maybe you can give me something I haven’t disproved yet regarding Christianity, its teachings and history. We should be able to agree that if Christianity shows things, like “the immaculate conception of Christ” to be it’s own, and I can prove it belong to someone else years before Christianity, then Christian action in that light should be deemed as faking the immaculate conception of some other entity as that of their Jesus Christ.-------------------------------------------------------------- It’s not God that has changed but the covenant. It is mankind that murders. All those instances were you accuse God of pre-meditated murder, it’s not like that at all. I recall a few of the accounts off hand but not all that you listed. But just the same…I too trust God, and there is more to the accounts than can be seen, recorded and/or understood. -------------------------------------------------------------- Please don’t get me wrong, are you saying that these actions are those of men/mankind?
1 Samuel 6:19 King James Version (KJV)
And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.
2 Samuel 6:7 King James Version (KJV)
And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.
Act 5, are you saying Ananias killed himself?
Acts 12, are you also saying Herod wasn’t killed by God? ..... And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.
There are countless instances both in Old and new testament.............are you saying this are people telling lies about what God did not do? Or am I also a liar?
If this is true, then will you agree that this God isn’t that all loving and forgiving after all?------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sin must be judged. Let’s equate it to someone committing a crime. The criminal act is done, nothing can ever take it back. The way that’s available to man is to charge the person to court and let other men investigate, collect evidence, etc. and then give whether the person is guilty or not. With our way many times, innocent people are judged and the guilty get away. After court, the judge orders the judgment and it is measured against crime committed. With God, he sees all! The person can’t lie or slip through a court system or get away with committing the crime because God saw the thoughts, knows what it said to the heart, and witnesses the act carried out. God is love definitely he is, but he is also a God of justice. Since he loves us, how can he not be about justice? And, truly there can be no justice without judgment. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If I take your statement at face value, that GOD is the best Judge and knows all things, even that which lurks in the heart of men. Then answer me this,
Genesis 12, is the 1st encounter, in the bible, of the Egyptian empire/people.
Genesis 12: 11-20 – Abraham made up the lie on his own with GOD, no pressure or actions from the Egyptian. He offered his wife as sister to a Pharaoh that can’t know the truth. The unsuspecting pharaoh gave gifts and land to Abraham. The Pharaoh was advised by one of his priests that he was plagued because of a curse from Abraham. The Pharaoh asked why Abraham had done such and asked him to depart with the gifts he had given him.
Please tell me again, that God’s judgement to punish the Pharaoh is true and just!!------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you know the effect of innocent blood shed? The effect of innocent blood being spilled in a land…we can not even imagine all that is involved. I recall when the first murder took place, God said to Cain, ‘the voice of your brother’s blood cry unto me from the ground.’ (Gen.4:10-11). We are not God and we just do not see or know all the wicked things that people do, believing that if no one on earth sees it they are safe. Sin doesn’t die. The sin has to be paid for…and that is love and that is justice. God does carry out judgments. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can agree with you that God carry’s out judgement, according to the bible. The spilling of innocent blood of both man and beast during the flood of Noah’s ark can never be paralleled by any human/mankind.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Some of the Europeans did use Christianity as a smoke screen “so to speak”. Even Hitler professed to be a Christian. The fake always copies the real, but it is still a fake. Nor does it take anything away from true Christianity. Christianity is not a religion. Jesus opposed the Jewish religious leaders and their religion while he walked the earth for so many reasons, but one is because of the burden religion places on people. The Biblical account of history and creation is not wrong…it is man that does not have all the information. The teaching of Christianity is not there to kill the human soul…as the soul does not die. Nor does it trap the spirit in bondage of fear. Christianity is freedom in so many ways, not bondage. You said, “Christinity is a religion of a supposed race called the jews who have no root in history. They have somehow created a race called the Isrealites and written them into Egyptian history by trying to re-write egyptian history.” Please, how did they do this with the world watching? I will address the rest 2moro.a bit tired now and work demands more concentration. | Posted: at 23-09-2011 03:39 AM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac | |
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![-]( "democrazy") democrazy at 23-09-2011 05:41 AM (12 years ago) (m) ............cont. Some of the Europeans did use Christianity as a smoke screen “so to speak”. Even Hitler professed to be a Christian. The fake always copies the real, but it is still a fake. Nor does it take anything away from true Christianity. --------------------------------------------------------------- The Europeans that came were in reality Christian missionaries. I can assure you there is no difference in the missionary story, how they went to Australia, Americas, Europe, and Africa to that of the Israelites’ journey to the promise land. After the Israelites reached the Promised Land, it paralleled the activities of present day Jews (Israelites) being relocated in 1947 to Palestine area, and forever waging wars and genocide on its neighbours.
Hitler is really as much Christian as Emperor Constantine who championed Christianity.
Also, I do agree with you, “A fake is usually a copy of the real item”. So I employ you to not say there is a fake or true Christianity. Christianity in short is fake.------------------------------------------------------------------------- Christianity is not a religion. Jesus opposed the Jewish religious leaders and their religion while he walked the earth for so many reasons, but one is because of the burden religion places on people. The Biblical account of history and creation is not wrong…it is man that does not have all the information. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Would you really allow us to discuss the mistakes in Genesis regarding creation as well as the initial introduction of GOD?---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The teaching of Christianity is not there to kill the human soul…as the soul does not die. Nor does it trap the spirit in bondage of fear. Christianity is freedom in so many ways, not bondage. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are you sure the soul does not die, ‘cause am thinking one of the selling points of the Christian GOD is that he can kill your soul.
Also do you not think fear traps the spirit in bondage?
If Christianity or the Christian GOD advertises freedom, then can I also say, if i tie you with a chain, long enough for you to wee, shit, and eat. Then instruct that you are free to do anything, but if you venture out of the house or do things against the list I’ve given you, you will be punished...........will this also be freedom. Cos this is how I see the Christian GOD’s freedom speech. Almost like hearing Obama speak about change.------------------------------------------------------------------------------ You said, “Christianity is a religion of a supposed race called the jews who have no root in history. They have somehow created a race called the Isrealites and written them into Egyptian history by trying to re-write egyptian history.” Please, how did they do this with the world watching? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The truth is, the Egyptian people and the NOC people of West Africa outdate the story of creation. So somehow, a quick introduction was done in the bible genesis, introducing Abraham to Egypt, just a few 100 years after only Noah and his family remained as humans on earth. Egypt was thriving and had record keepers, libraries, politics and political heads or kings or Pharaohs as referred to today. The bible was written by Hebrew scribes, who are known as Jews. Most of the world, will say all the world now, has been taken over by this same people. Most of the scholars of the history of the ancient Near East for nearly two millennia relied primarily on the Bible as a scientific reference. Now do you think the Jews have a reason to falsify Egyptian history? We can further discuss this....... | Posted: at 23-09-2011 05:41 AM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac | |
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![-]( "mchinwendu") mchinwendu at 23-09-2011 03:45 PM (12 years ago) (f) @democrazy
My responses are in >>>purple.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- @mchinwendu....let me try answer with this format....... Christianity is not fake, nor have you proven it to be so. ------------------------------------------------------------- How much proof will I need to present? Maybe you can give me something I haven’t disproved yet regarding Christianity, its teachings and history. We should be able to agree that if Christianity shows things, like “the immaculate conception of Christ” to be it’s own, and I can prove it belong to someone else years before Christianity, then Christian action in that light should be deemed as faking the immaculate conception of some other entity as that of their Jesus Christ. >>>It’s not proof, it’s what you believe. And, I believe differently. This area of concentration does not negate the others. Even if someone spoke of an ‘immaculate conception of Christ’ before or after, that alone does not make the Christian account fake. Especially, when the real event takes place. There is a such thing as prophecy. -------------------------------------------------------------- It’s not God that has changed but the covenant. It is mankind that murders. All those instances were you accuse God of pre-meditated murder, it’s not like that at all. I recall a few of the accounts off hand but not all that you listed. But just the same…I too trust God, and there is more to the accounts than can be seen, recorded and/or understood. -------------------------------------------------------------- Please don’t get me wrong, are you saying that these actions are those of men/mankind? 1 Samuel 6:19 King James Version (KJV) And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter. 2 Samuel 6:7 King James Version (KJV) And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God. Act 5, are you saying Ananias killed himself? Acts 12, are you also saying Herod wasn’t killed by God? ..... And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost. There are countless instances both in Old and new testament.............are you saying this are people telling lies about what God did not do? Or am I also a liar? If this is true, then will you agree that this God isn’t that all loving and forgiving after all? >>>Not at all am I saying that mankind committed those actions that you mentioned. But, it is mankind’s sinful actions that requires the actions to be imposed. Ultimately, it starts with mankind and God addresses it accordingly.
I wanted to go over those scriptures again 1 Sam. 6:19, 2 Sam. 6:7, Act 5, Acts 12 but don’t have chance to at the moment, but will.
But, what scripture says happened did happen, I’m just saying there is more to it than what we know because we can’t see everything under the sun.
God is loving and forgiving, but he is also just, merciful, understanding, patient, etc. and so much more. There is no way for me to speak on God’s mind or those things which are in his power. I can only speak what I know and what have been revealed. I have asked you two questions in two different ways that relates to this. One I asked if your were the president of a new city and the other I asked if you were the king over a kingdom, do you recall them? Please, I would like to hear your answer to them both. Because if logic remains in place, there can be justice without judgment. In defending the innocent, the other side, the guilty must be punished. Sin has to be addressed.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sin must be judged. Let’s equate it to someone committing a crime. The criminal act is done, nothing can ever take it back. The way that’s available to man is to charge the person to court and let other men investigate, collect evidence, etc. and then give whether the person is guilty or not. With our way many times, innocent people are judged and the guilty get away. After court, the judge orders the judgment and it is measured against crime committed. With God, he sees all! The person can’t lie or slip through a court system or get away with committing the crime because God saw the thoughts, knows what it said to the heart, and witnesses the act carried out. God is love definitely he is, but he is also a God of justice. Since he loves us, how can he not be about justice? And, truly there can be no justice without judgment. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If I take your statement at face value, that GOD is the best Judge and knows all things, even that which lurks in the heart of men. Then answer me this, Genesis 12, is the 1st encounter, in the bible, of the Egyptian empire/people. Genesis 12: 11-20 – Abraham made up the lie on his own with GOD, no pressure or actions from the Egyptian. He offered his wife as sister to a Pharaoh that can’t know the truth. The unsuspecting pharaoh gave gifts and land to Abraham. The Pharaoh was advised by one of his priests that he was plagued because of a curse from Abraham. The Pharaoh asked why Abraham had done such and asked him to depart with the gifts he had given him. Please tell me again, that God’s judgement to punish the Pharaoh is true and just!! >>>Please, don’t just take my statement at face value, test it to see whether it is true or not.
In Gen 12:11-20, what do you mean Abraham lied on his own with God? God had nothing to do with Abraham’s decision to lie to the one in authority. Abraham didn’t offer his wife. The Pharaoh took his wife, under the false pretense and believing it was Abraham’s sister. Abraham was watching out for himself, he didn’t want to be killed, and he lied about his relationship to his own wife. There is a consequence to this…one has to take into account what is taught in the Bible regarding such acts. You believe what happened to the Pharaoh wasn’t brought upon him by his own doing? Why? It doesn’t excuse Abraham part of lying either. Do you know if Pharaoh worshipped false gods? Do you know if he was pre-warned by his priest? Do you know if he was already under judgment or even his family? The act was rightly judged…the Pharaoh was actually with another man’s wife, eventhough Abraham lied, the Pharaoh was still with another man‘s wife. Maybe Pharaoh‘s so called priest didn‘t do their job and warn the Pharaoh as they should have?? How many wives did the Pharaoh have already? Just because one sees a pretty woman doesn’t mean he has to take her. does negatively affect the innocent. But, whether Pharaoh was innocent do we know? God did step into this situation and he did warn Pharaoh himself before Abraham’s wife was taken as another man’s wife. We only know one dimension of the account. If we take a look at our own lives, and what we involve ourselves in, it’s not just what people see but inner workings that must be taken into account as well. It seems you do not believe God is not loving and just, thus would murder his own creation without cause. I believe that God is loving and just, and murdering people with no just cause is not part of his nature. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you know the effect of innocent blood shed? The effect of innocent blood being spilled in a land…we can not even imagine all that is involved. I recall when the first murder took place, God said to Cain, ‘the voice of your brother’s blood cry unto me from the ground.’ (Gen.4:10-11). We are not God and we just do not see or know all the wicked things that people do, believing that if no one on earth sees it they are safe. Sin doesn’t die. The sin has to be paid for…and that is love and that is justice. God does carry out judgments. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can agree with you that God carry’s out judgement, according to the bible. The spilling of innocent blood of both man and beast during the flood of Noah’s ark can never be paralleled by any human/mankind. >>>God carry’s out judgment according to the Bible and logic.
I’m not sure of your point regarding Noah‘s Ark? Who or what tells you that those who died in the flood were innocent? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Some of the Europeans did use Christianity as a smoke screen “so to speak”. Even Hitler professed to be a Christian. The fake always copies the real, but it is still a fake. Nor does it take anything away from true Christianity. >>>Christianity is not a religion. Jesus opposed the Jewish religious leaders and their religion while he walked the earth for so many reasons. One was because of the burden religion places on people.
The Biblical account of history and creation is not wrong…it is man that does not have all the information.
The teaching of Christianity is not there to kill the human soul…as the soul does not die. Nor does it trap the spirit in bondage of fear. Christianity is freedom, not bondage. | Posted: at 23-09-2011 03:45 PM (12 years ago) | Upcoming | |
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Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, Lord, how is it that You will reveal Yourself to us and not to the world? Jesus answered and said to him, If a man loves Me, he will keep My Word. And My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.
(Joh 14:22-23 MKJV)
Your arguments against the genuineness of Christianity seem impressive. You obviously did a lot of research. But one must differentiate between facts and truth. Facts may convince a man but only the truth can convict a man. If the Bible was the only basis for the faith a Christian has then it wouldn't be any different from most other religions. And like any other religion (which are by the way invented by man), it would be flawed (as you are trying to prove). Just like the rest of man's inventions. Have you ever experienced an overwhelming peace and joy when everything around you appears to be falling apart? Have you ever felt a love so strong that you shed tears and nothing else mattered in that moment of time, not even life? Have you ever been in so much emotional pain (like losing a brother) and voice tells you "it will be well" and in an instant a cool breeze blows within you and all that pain just disappears? Have you ever been with someone who you could talk to about anything and everything and yet is always listening,encouraging, giving you insights and information you could never have known? I could go on and on. Like I said nothing can touch a man so deep, so powerfully and so purifying as truth. That truth is Jesus Christ. Once you experience the truth all arguments end. The world says 'let me see, then i will believe'. Faith says 'Believe, then you will see'. | Posted: at 23-09-2011 10:54 PM (12 years ago) | Newbie | |
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![-]( "mchinwendu") mchinwendu at 24-09-2011 03:44 PM (12 years ago) (f) @breathofreshair
Your comment speaks volumes...I especially liked when you said, "Facts may convince a man but only the truth can convict a man."
Our God is a great God. | Posted: at 24-09-2011 03:44 PM (12 years ago) | Upcoming | |
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![-]( "CammyWhite") CammyWhite at 24-09-2011 03:53 PM (12 years ago) (f) If the Bible was the only basis for the faith a Christian has then it wouldn't be any different from most other religions. And like any other religion (which are by the way invented by man), it would be flawed (as you are trying to prove). Just like the rest of man's inventions. Christianity is flawed. So I guess it's a religion like any other. | Posted: at 24-09-2011 03:53 PM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac | |
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![-]( "mchinwendu") mchinwendu at 25-09-2011 09:29 PM (12 years ago) (f) @democrazy
If I may continue with the 2 similar hypothetical questions that I asked previously:
If you were the president of a new city (society), and all was going well. Everyone lived together in peace and harmony. You and the city officials put laws in place, along with consequences for breaking the laws, so that peace and harmony would continue. One example of the new law was if anyone commits murder, the consequence or punishment was death. Years passed and all was good. You came to love each on of the people living in your city very much. Now, one commits murder, what would you do as president?
If you were the king of a new kingdom. All your subjects lived together, helped one another and lived in peace. You along with your royal officials put laws in place, along with consequences for breaking the laws, so the peace would continue in your land. One example of the new law was if anyone commits murder, the consequence or punishment was death. Many years passed and you were very close to each of your subjects. You knew their family's very well and grew to love them all so very much. One day, someone commits murder, what would you do as king?
| Posted: at 25-09-2011 09:29 PM (12 years ago) | Upcoming | |
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![-]( "mchinwendu") mchinwendu at 25-09-2011 09:53 PM (12 years ago) (f) @democrazy
If I may continue with the 2 similar hypothetical questions that I asked previously:
If you were the president of a new city (society), and all was going well. Everyone lived together in peace and harmony. You and the city officials put laws in place, along with consequences for breaking the laws, so that peace and harmony would continue. One example of the new law was if anyone commits murder, the consequence or punishment was death. Years passed and all was good. You came to love each on of the people living in your city very much. Now, one commits murder, what would you do as president?
If you were the king of a new kingdom. All your subjects lived together, helped one another and lived in peace. You along with your royal officials put laws in place, along with consequences for breaking the laws, so the peace would continue in your land. One example of the new law was if anyone commits murder, the consequence or punishment was death. Many years passed and you were very close to each of your subjects. You knew their family's very well and grew to love them all so very much. One day, someone commits murder, what would you do as king?
P.S. Someone mentioned this book and I was curious if you have heard of it, "Show Me God" by Fred Heeren and George Smoot? It is said to record the intellectual pursuits of some of the great minds who did not believe there was a God. I know, your thread is about Christianity but thought the book might interest you, if you haven't read it already. | Posted: at 25-09-2011 09:53 PM (12 years ago) | Upcoming | |
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not quite,i should be the one to tell you maybe you are afraid of pasting me the fact and your source(s).cause i have good sources dating back to 2005 till 2011 giving me intel of the shroud been authentic.now you were the one who said is a fake.paste me your proof/source and not telling me to do research....
if you have the proof of it,display it and defend your claim.. Actually, since you mentioned the Shroud first, the burden of proof is on you. the burden of proof is on me?.. really?....how hilarious. if you are satisfied that your claim is right,then stick to your guns.... I'm serious. (does it look to you like am unserious?) You made a claim, (yes and of course i did.didn't you made one as well?) you back it up. (am seconds away at backing my claim with sources if needs be.but what about you??)the least you could come up with,was to tell me to do my own research,speaks so much on how you pass your message across to people on an e-forum. | Posted: at 26-09-2011 12:10 AM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac | |
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very good mr democrazy i love rational explanation.but,
there are some proof we can only know but will never see it.a very good example is mystic powers,one of such possessed by animist worshippers.their demonic powers can be used to advocate evil and other causes based on preference.what is the rational explanation behind these mystic powers?or can we see them?or should we depend on logic that they don't exist and is a mere hoax?did i just say hoax?
if the adherents of the christian faith decides to engage in a spiritual fighting incantation with these animist worshippers,the christians always have a stronghold way above that of the animist worshippers.what is the rational explanation behind the force/power that gave the christians a stronghold then?....who/what is said to possess such powers?
@Williams, Mystic power is only called mystic because we dont understand it. Humans generally have a lot of different powers available to them, both physically and supernaturally. If you develop your physical bother, you can get it to perform actions that are deemed beyond the human body functionality. Same way if you know how to manipulate the waves that makes you see or hear then we are getting somewhere. All these can be learned and are not a gift to only a certain individual. The way we use these powers determine either good or evil. Religion or GOD/ALLAH has no say in this human endeavours. If we use it to expalin the not known, then when we come into the knowing, we should make amends and let the truth filter through. Interesting mr demo...but am laughing at something you know what it is??I'll tell you,its LOGIC. I actually thought logic should be more cemented and concreted for humans to depend on as a leverage,but it proved wrong. from your comment and i wrote as stated below: **Mystic power is only called mystic because we dont understand it**(we humans had better understand it cause we depend on logic as a leverage)why was logic not able to help us appreciate/reckon mystic power(s) completely?? | Posted: at 26-09-2011 01:09 AM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac | |
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@democrazy, from my previous post i pasted these comment below.. can you give me an answer to them? There are more than 2.1 billion adherent christians on planet earth making it accountable for one-third of the world's population.now my question is this: 1. if christianity/god is fake and so unreal how is it possible that this religion has more subscribers than any other religion? 2.if the adherents of the christian faith are so delusional and gullible,how then do we pull out over 2.1 billion people worldwide out of this religion?(this is going to be a major challenge against a league of adversaries)which in my opinion,is going to be a mission impossible to achieve. ummm,this is a third question just popped in! 3.since christianity is so fake and imaginary what then do humans need to depend on or believe?.. nothing?? or logic?? am fully aware of the flaws and conflicting descrepancies surrounding the bible and christian religion.but the proving of the entire entity called "christianity" as 100% fake,is still what am up against.... | Posted: at 26-09-2011 01:48 AM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac | |
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@cammy and democrazy,am about to go offline for the next 450hours or thereabout maybe more maybe less.. i will resurface into circulation after that time frame to grab infos/update and respond accordingly. but until then,hold yourselves steady! | Posted: at 26-09-2011 01:50 AM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac | |
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![-]( "democrazy") democrazy at 27-09-2011 01:25 PM (12 years ago) (m) @democrazy
My responses are in >>>purple.
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@mchinwendu....let me try answer with this format.......
Christianity is not fake, nor have you proven it to be so.
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How much proof will I need to present? Maybe you can give me something I haven’t disproved yet regarding Christianity, its teachings and history. We should be able to agree that if Christianity shows things, like “the immaculate conception of Christ” to be it’s own, and I can prove it belong to someone else years before Christianity, then Christian action in that light should be deemed as faking the immaculate conception of some other entity as that of their Jesus Christ.
>>>It’s not proof, it’s what you believe. And, I believe differently. This area of concentration does not negate the others. Even if someone spoke of an ‘immaculate conception of Christ’ before or after, that alone does not make the Christian account fake. Especially, when the real event takes place. There is a such thing as prophecy.
****The belief in Christianity is not a freedom of belief for we Africans. The Chinese GOD looks Chinese, The Hindu GOD looks Indian, the Caucasian GOD, looks Caucasian, I cannot accept that you will say you choose your Christian belief just cos it’s what you belief in. NO! The Christian GOD was forced on Africa and America, Africans and American Indians were killed in Millions if they do not accept the Christian faith. There was no freedom of choice. Maybe now, that all the African history has been fully indoctrinated and schooled, we are given the illusion of choice. If you can be truthful, then you know that the Christians killed off all the pagans by introducing the Pagan hunter-deity as SATAN and calling the pagan priestess, witches. ****
****I agree with your statement that Immaculate Conception in Christianity does not make Christianity fake. BUT, if the story of the Immaculate Conception is false, then the Christian Jesus is fake. This I can prove, that there was no one named Jesus nor was there any 3 wise men at his birth. Also that no star was followed to any manger.****
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It’s not God that has changed but the covenant. It is mankind that murders. All those instances were you accuse God of pre-meditated murder, it’s not like that at all. I recall a few of the accounts off hand but not all that you listed. But just the same…I too trust God, and there is more to the accounts than can be seen, recorded and/or understood.
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Please don’t get me wrong, are you saying that these actions are those of men/mankind?
1 Samuel 6:19 King James Version (KJV)
And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.
2 Samuel 6:7 King James Version (KJV)
And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.
Act 5, are you saying Ananias killed himself?
Acts 12, are you also saying Herod wasn’t killed by God? ..... And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.
There are countless instances both in Old and new testament.............are you saying this are people telling lies about what God did not do? Or am I also a liar?
If this is true, then will you agree that this God isn’t that all loving and forgiving after all?
>>>Not at all am I saying that mankind committed those actions that you mentioned. But, it is mankind’s sinful actions that requires the actions to be imposed. Ultimately, it starts with mankind and God addresses it accordingly.
I wanted to go over those scriptures again 1 Sam. 6:19, 2 Sam. 6:7, Act 5, Acts 12 but don’t have chance to at the moment, but will.
But, what scripture says happened did happen, I’m just saying there is more to it than what we know because we can’t see everything under the sun.
****Did you manage to check those verses and find out if there was more to the killings? My understanding of “under the sun” is that things become visible and clearer under the sun. Guess we need another form of light to get the remaining truth that are still lurking in the dark. ****
God is loving and forgiving, but he is also just, merciful, understanding, patient, etc. and so much more. There is no way for me to speak on God’s mind or those things which are in his power. I can only speak what I know and what have been revealed.
**** You have no proof to support your statement that GOD is loving and forgiving. Neither can you prove he/she is just. Your judgement or perception is only derived from your imaginations. This leaves me with my basic understanding that GOD is Imaginary as well as all the deeds he/she is praised for. If you truly speak what you know, then site and example to support your statements. ****
I have asked you two questions in two different ways that relates to this. One I asked if your were the president of a new city and the other I asked if you were the king over a kingdom, do you recall them? Please, I would like to hear your answer to them both. Because if logic remains in place, there can be justice without judgment. In defending the innocent, the other side, the guilty must be punished. Sin has to be addressed.
****I will answer the questions on a next thread.****
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Sin must be judged. Let’s equate it to someone committing a crime. The criminal act is done, nothing can ever take it back. The way that’s available to man is to charge the person to court and let other men investigate, collect evidence, etc. and then give whether the person is guilty or not. With our way many times, innocent people are judged and the guilty get away. After court, the judge orders the judgment and it is measured against crime committed. With God, he sees all! The person can’t lie or slip through a court system or get away with committing the crime because God saw the thoughts, knows what it said to the heart, and witnesses the act carried out. God is love definitely he is, but he is also a God of justice. Since he loves us, how can he not be about justice? And, truly there can be no justice without judgment.
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If I take your statement at face value, that GOD is the best Judge and knows all things, even that which lurks in the heart of men. Then answer me this,
Genesis 12, is the 1st encounter, in the bible, of the Egyptian empire/people.
Genesis 12: 11-20 – Abraham made up the lie on his own with GOD, no pressure or actions from the Egyptian. He offered his wife as sister to a Pharaoh that can’t know the truth. The unsuspecting pharaoh gave gifts and land to Abraham. The Pharaoh was advised by one of his priests that he was plagued because of a curse from Abraham. The Pharaoh asked why Abraham had done such and asked him to depart with the gifts he had given him.
Please tell me again, that God’s judgement to punish the Pharaoh is true and just!!
>>>Please, don’t just take my statement at face value, test it to see whether it is true or not.
In Gen 12:11-20, what do you mean Abraham lied on his own with God? God had nothing to do with Abraham’s decision to lie to the one in authority. Abraham didn’t offer his wife. The Pharaoh took his wife, under the false pretense and believing it was Abraham’s sister. Abraham was watching out for himself, he didn’t want to be killed, and he lied about his relationship to his own wife. There is a consequence to this…one has to take into account what is taught in the Bible regarding such acts. You believe what happened to the Pharaoh wasn’t brought upon him by his own doing? Why? It doesn’t excuse Abraham part of lying either. Do you know if Pharaoh worshipped false gods? Do you know if he was pre-warned by his priest? Do you know if he was already under judgment or even his family? The act was rightly judged…the Pharaoh was actually with another man’s wife, eventhough Abraham lied, the Pharaoh was still with another man‘s wife. Maybe Pharaoh‘s so called priest didn‘t do their job and warn the Pharaoh as they should have?? How many wives did the Pharaoh have already? Just because one sees a pretty woman doesn’t mean he has to take her. does negatively affect the innocent. But, whether Pharaoh was innocent do we know? God did step into this situation and he did warn Pharaoh himself before Abraham’s wife was taken as another man’s wife. We only know one dimension of the account. If we take a look at our own lives, and what we involve ourselves in, it’s not just what people see but inner workings that must be taken into account as well. It seems you do not believe God is not loving and just, thus would murder his own creation without cause. I believe that God is loving and just, and murdering people with no just cause is not part of his nature.
****I think you need to re-read that story about Abraham visiting Egypt. You seem to say Pharaoh forcefully took over Sarah, and that he deserved his punishment. I won’t want to go on arguing this with you as your mentality is not fair or just.****
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Do you know the effect of innocent blood shed? The effect of innocent blood being spilled in a land…we can not even imagine all that is involved. I recall when the first murder took place, God said to Cain, ‘the voice of your brother’s blood cry unto me from the ground.’ (Gen.4:10-11). We are not God and we just do not see or know all the wicked things that people do, believing that if no one on earth sees it they are safe. Sin doesn’t die. The sin has to be paid for…and that is love and that is justice. God does carry out judgments.
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I can agree with you that God carry’s out judgement, according to the bible. The spilling of innocent blood of both man and beast during the flood of Noah’s ark can never be paralleled by any human/mankind.
>>>God carry’s out judgment according to the Bible and logic.
I’m not sure of your point regarding Noah‘s Ark? Who or what tells you that those who died in the flood were innocent?
****Again you are displaying an irrational habit or thinking mode here. Are you saying everyone on earth including the animals and human infants where all sinners? Are you saying no child was born on the day of the flood or in weeks before the flood, and they are all sinners? Am really not happy with your statement here!!! ****
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Some of the Europeans did use Christianity as a smoke screen “so to speak”. Even Hitler professed to be a Christian. The fake always copies the real, but it is still a fake. Nor does it take anything away from true Christianity.
>>>Christianity is not a religion. Jesus opposed the Jewish religious leaders and their religion while he walked the earth for so many reasons. One was because of the burden religion places on people.
The Biblical account of history and creation is not wrong…it is man that does not have all the information.
****I am saying the biblical account of the ancient Israelites is wrong, the biblical account of the creation of the world is wrong. The biblical account of the Jewish races being created by GOD or Chosen by GOD is wrong. The biblical account has no reference to black history and if anything it vilified the black people and their History and grouped them as gentiles. All these we can discuss.****
The teaching of Christianity is not there to kill the human soul…as the soul does not die. Nor does it trap the spirit in bondage of fear. Christianity is freedom, not bondage.
****Nature develops the human soul, anything directly opposite of nature or against nature will kill or trap the human soul. Christianity does this by creating a lifestyle that is against nature.**** @mchinwendu, I have my input highlighted in RED. | Posted: at 27-09-2011 01:25 PM (12 years ago) | Gistmaniac | |
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